idea

[Hellion]

All in all I feel it was a pretty good attempt at a good idea though as basilisk stated it has a number of holes. Though I am good bit less concerned about other players playstyle be better or worse compared to simmers or even how it effects them. I feel the greatest reason for a server slowing down and players going inactive is the rebuilding phase. As he also pointed out though the numbers are a good bit off though I always feel the specific numbers are never in final form from the first post and are generally changed because of different reasons.

Some other things I wouldn't mind seeing.

-soft cap is based on age of server/account as well as the benefit of computers etc. This could actually make the idea useful on younger servers also. 5 million fleet per level of comp is massive on a 180 day account compared to a 1800 day account.

- Perhaps a cap on the econ based on total prod you get. Lets say for example purposes if the prod boost is 3x then maybe cap the overall econ boost no more than 1x or 1.5x your prod at increased level. Example if normal prod is 20k then becomes 60k most econ boost you can get is 20k then add your normal econ of lets say 14k = 34k. Player would basically be able to double prod without the double cost effectively while still have the ability to double prod at stupid speeds. This counter proposal also would put a greater emphasis on a strong production because it would also increase the econ cap as well.

- I would also prefer people over the server cap to actually prod as normal. Everyone proding stupid fast that is smaller than them would effectively be able to use more fleet than them constantly.

Just some small inputs I had though I might think of stuff later as well.

[albend]

I would support this only for the speed server. It seems like to much of a drastic change for the normal servers. However its numbers need tweaking so they are not so drastically overpowered. 10% is a step in the right direction, but further tweaking. Ive not worked through the numbers for the fleet cap, but it cant limit production enough to piss off older accounts and it cannot restrict simmers to harshly. A balance can be found Im sure for the normal servers but in its current iteration I would prefer it remain a speed server change.

[Universe]

I would support this only for the speed server. It seems like to much of a drastic change for the normal servers. However its numbers need tweaking so they are not so drastically overpowered. 10% is a step in the right direction, but further tweaking. Ive not worked through the numbers for the fleet cap, but it cant limit production enough to piss off older accounts and it cannot restrict simmers to harshly. A balance can be found Im sure for the normal servers but in its current iteration I would prefer it remain a speed server change.

I would say that something drastic is needed to salvage the dying servers. This could be the kick start that's needed.

[albend]

I would support this only for the speed server. It seems like to much of a drastic change for the normal servers. However its numbers need tweaking so they are not so drastically overpowered. 10% is a step in the right direction, but further tweaking. Ive not worked through the numbers for the fleet cap, but it cant limit production enough to piss off older accounts and it cannot restrict simmers to harshly. A balance can be found Im sure for the normal servers but in its current iteration I would prefer it remain a speed server change.

I would say that something drastic is needed to salvage the dying servers. This could be the kick start that's needed.

You might be correct, and my guess is this would certainly do it. Doesnt mean we cant hammer it out in an attempt to get the best possible outcome.

[kris]

no offence but I worked hard for my fleet and my prod cap, I also work hard to kill other fleets. If someone gets killed by me why should they suddenly overtake my prod cap that theyve put no time or effort in to building.

[albend]

Opinion noted


The basic reasoning is simple, we would rather have players stay after losing fleet, then leave and instead they are replaced with a self gratifying feeling that you get. Im surprised your against this Kris, then again you probably have to much fun with literally no competition on Ceti.

Some of us actually enjoy fighting equally equipped enemies, and not only is this benefical for those who lose fleet, it also aides those elite players. More enemies, more hits, more viability for the underdog. Less time inbetween crashes.

[Ferdoc]

no offence but you guys are crazy, I worked hard for my fleet and my prod cap.

Last time I checked this idea didn't delete your fleet over a certain value. So please, tell us where they remove your fleet just for going over a certain value. Hint - you don't lose fleet arbitrarily.

Look back at the idea Kris. Read it carefully. Where does it say 'Kris can not use this idea'? Aren't you able to build the bonuses and use those bonuses when your fleet total drops below the personally generated cap? If you can't do it Kris, please explain why you aren't able to use this idea. Don't give me that fail excuse that you won't get below the cap. You can research more computer tech and raise it or you could go out and use your fleet more. So how will you forever be unable to use this idea?

Also I work hard to kill other fleets.

[citation needed] also highly irrelevant to this matter. This isn't about how much or little you work to do something. This is about helping people get back into playing AE in months, rather than years.

If someone gets killed by me why the heck should they suddenly overtake my prod cap that theyve put no time or effort in to building.

Because you can get the same benefit as well. Oh, wait. Sorry forgot you didn't understand the complexities of combat despite your previous claims. The vast majority of hits cause you to lose fleet. Now, when you use up that fleet your fleet total goes down. Now, if you can stop yourself from picking on people far far below you in level you'll notice you decent portion of your fleet. Again, when you attack you lose fleet. Now when your fleet totals drops below that player driven number, you too can get that benefit.

Now, Kris. Do you wanna hear the magic trick about this that benefits you or should I not spoil the secret? You know what. I'll tell you the secret to this magic trick that you apparently missed. When you make an attack and win. You get the debris. That debris can be used to rebuild your fleet. When you drop below the magic number for the production bonus and have the debris. What happens Kris?

You get the production bonus! Which means you'll be able to build a much large queue at a quick pace! Even though the other person will also get the bonus, you'll benefit from it sooner and to a bigger degree! You'll be at a higher fleet total, thanks to the debris, while your opponent has to spend time to rebuild.

[kris]

Last time I checked this idea didn't delete your fleet over a certain value. So please, tell us where they remove your fleet just for going over a certain value. Hint - you don't lose fleet arbitrarily.

Look back at the idea Kris. Read it carefully. Where does it say 'Kris can not use this idea'? Aren't you able to build the bonuses and use those bonuses when your fleet total drops below the personally generated cap? If you can't do it Kris, please explain why you aren't able to use this idea. Don't give me that fail excuse that you won't get below the cap. You can research more computer tech and raise it or you could go out and use your fleet more. So how will you forever be unable to use this idea?

Seriously if you want more flet because someone killed you I suggest you be a bit more careful with where you leave your fleet and build more prod so you can get it up faster, dont try to penalise those who allready have built high prod and fleet.

Now, Kris. Do you wanna hear the magic trick about this that benefits you or should I not spoil the secret? You know what. I'll tell you the secret to this magic trick that you apparently missed. When you make an attack and win. You get the debris. That debris can be used to rebuild your fleet. When you drop below the magic number for the production bonus and have the debris. What happens Kris?

You get the production bonus! Which means you'll be able to build a much large queue at a quick pace! Even though the other person will also get the bonus, you'll benefit from it sooner and to a bigger degree! You'll be at a higher fleet total, thanks to the debris, while your opponent has to spend time to rebuild.

There arent actually many fleet targets unblobbed that would make my fleet drop that low for a significat period of time. Even on our last blob hit I went from 250m to 170m so the time Id be under 200m wouldnt be long at all. With all this reduced prod you talk of I would have had a whole load of credits that I would be unable to spend. I mean seriously how the heck would I spend 150m credits with reduced production. Sure I would have been able to spend 20m at a faster rate but what about the rest?

[Puck]

Please keep working on the idea from now on and not debate about the merits.

Thanks.

[albend]

Last time I checked this idea didn't delete your fleet over a certain value. So please, tell us where they remove your fleet just for going over a certain value. Hint - you don't lose fleet arbitrarily.

Look back at the idea Kris. Read it carefully. Where does it say 'Kris can not use this idea'? Aren't you able to build the bonuses and use those bonuses when your fleet total drops below the personally generated cap? If you can't do it Kris, please explain why you aren't able to use this idea. Don't give me that fail excuse that you won't get below the cap. You can research more computer tech and raise it or you could go out and use your fleet more. So how will you forever be unable to use this idea?

Seriously if you want more flet because someone killed you I suggest you be a bit more careful with where you leave your fleet and build more prod so you can get it up faster, dont try to penalise those who allready have built high prod and fleet.

Now, Kris. Do you wanna hear the magic trick about this that benefits you or should I not spoil the secret? You know what. I'll tell you the secret to this magic trick that you apparently missed. When you make an attack and win. You get the debris. That debris can be used to rebuild your fleet. When you drop below the magic number for the production bonus and have the debris. What happens Kris?

You get the production bonus! Which means you'll be able to build a much large queue at a quick pace! Even though the other person will also get the bonus, you'll benefit from it sooner and to a bigger degree! You'll be at a higher fleet total, thanks to the debris, while your opponent has to spend time to rebuild.

There arent actually many fleet targets unblobbed that would make my fleet drop that low for a significat period of time. Even on our last blob hit I went from 250m to 170m so the time Id be under 200m wouldnt be long at all. With all this reduced prod you talk of I would have had a whole load of credits that I would be unable to spend. I mean seriously how the heck would I spend 150m credits with reduced production. Sure I would have been able to spend 20m at a faster rate but what about the rest?

As misguided as Kris may be, he brings up a valid point. How do we address storing credits, people over 200 mil could end up with vast reserves of credits, and construction and Research combined might not take care of it. Potentially amending the system could fix this.

[Hellion]

@kris

Though mostly playing middle man and not saying I totally agree with the next part I say and would take a massive amount of additional thought and work with it.

If there was a means of sinking more creds towards construction at a faster pace as well as the fact people could save up for more total bases also then it gives active players something to strive for. As far as structures go a means of fast producing structures at a much larger price (2-4x) it would at least raise the actual soft cap a tad bit while allowing more creds to sink. I think a blend of both ideas would at least give people late game something to do while at the same time making the pace of rebuilding fleet much faster which ideally means more overall ability to fight each other.

[albend]

Eh credit sinks, always irritating. We either end up with super something else or a bank. Either way is expoentially increases the difficultly of the idea and its balancing. It might be better just to allow prepay researching, sure it easy sinks before hits but its stupid to assume this idea doesnt already allow for easy sinking with increased prod.


I wonder, with this idea could you even occupy bases? The defender would have massive advantage with this much prod. This would complete and utterly change tactics within the game.

[Hellion]

Eh credit sinks, always irritating. We either end up with super something else or a bank. Either way is expoentially increases the difficultly of the idea and its balancing. It might be better just to allow prepay researching, sure it easy sinks before hits but its stupid to assume this idea doesnt already allow for easy sinking with increased prod.


I wonder, with this idea could you even occupy bases? The defender would have massive advantage with this much prod. This would complete and utterly change tactics within the game.

First I never consider the game requiring people to adapt to the game a bad thing as long as its done within reason.

If it gave more of an advantage to occupied people that would not hurt my feelings at all. Never been a big fan of perm occ'n people and doubt I ever will be.

Lastly if they lowered the % a bit of what you get as credits and still collect derbs then yes it would still amount to somewhat of a credit sink though just as easily I would probably just try and double prod the already stupid high prod... My prod on one server of 19k *3 = 57k*2 = 114k = win

Again though I think all the numbers could use some work tbh. As is the idea is kind of bad though I think it could be a great addition if done correctly.

[Cabbage]

Last time I checked this idea didn't delete your fleet over a certain value. So please, tell us where they remove your fleet just for going over a certain value. Hint - you don't lose fleet arbitrarily.

Look back at the idea Kris. Read it carefully. Where does it say 'Kris can not use this idea'? Aren't you able to build the bonuses and use those bonuses when your fleet total drops below the personally generated cap? If you can't do it Kris, please explain why you aren't able to use this idea. Don't give me that fail excuse that you won't get below the cap. You can research more computer tech and raise it or you could go out and use your fleet more. So how will you forever be unable to use this idea?

Seriously if you want more flet because someone killed you I suggest you be a bit more careful with where you leave your fleet and build more prod so you can get it up faster, dont try to penalise those who allready have built high prod and fleet.

Now, Kris. Do you wanna hear the magic trick about this that benefits you or should I not spoil the secret? You know what. I'll tell you the secret to this magic trick that you apparently missed. When you make an attack and win. You get the debris. That debris can be used to rebuild your fleet. When you drop below the magic number for the production bonus and have the debris. What happens Kris?

You get the production bonus! Which means you'll be able to build a much large queue at a quick pace! Even though the other person will also get the bonus, you'll benefit from it sooner and to a bigger degree! You'll be at a higher fleet total, thanks to the debris, while your opponent has to spend time to rebuild.

There arent actually many fleet targets unblobbed that would make my fleet drop that low for a significat period of time. Even on our last blob hit I went from 250m to 170m so the time Id be under 200m wouldnt be long at all. With all this reduced prod you talk of I would have had a whole load of credits that I would be unable to spend. I mean seriously how the heck would I spend 150m credits with reduced production. Sure I would have been able to spend 20m at a faster rate but what about the rest?

As misguided as Kris may be, he brings up a valid point. How do we address storing credits, people over 200 mil could end up with vast reserves of credits, and construction and Research combined might not take care of it. Potentially amending the system could fix this.

What it does is that it forces people to save up money to build Bases past 23.

Yes, it costs money but once you have 200m fleet, you will also have roughly 100m - 150m tech with it. At that point, techs start to cost 20m - 40m a piece. Invest in longer term Tech's and you will still be able to build fleet and build on your bases.

Theoretically, it doesn't change much for people past 200m fleet because they will still be upgrading their bases and tech's. Still being at the Advantage over the people who can build faster.

[albend]

That is true; I wonder what exactly Wizards take on this is? I have to wonder what he envisions for AE.


Another thing to add onto that is Commanders. They can really start to be strong with huge amounts of extra credits. I guess we don't really need a new sink considering Bases/Commanders/Construction/Research may really be able to run with a bit more regularity. Rings would become insane with this kind of money, but fleet is rebuilt faster. So it would definitely up the bar for taking bases.