Guild Maps

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Event Horizon
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Guild Maps

Postby Event Horizon » Mon 06 Jun, 2011 09:04

I searched this topic and got more than 18 pages of results but none that matched both terms. I did make a proposal like this a few years ago but couldn't find it in my list of board posts (in fact only a small number of my board posts actually showed up in the list...). I've reworked it and I believe it is also more relevant now because of the FR workshop about databases.

Basic Proposal

1. Each guild would get a set of galaxy maps (I think 5 would be a reasonable number) viewable by all members and displayed under a separate tab on the guild page.

2. These maps would allow for up to X bookmarks each (Admins would have to decide what # would be manageable but I'd say as few as 50 would be necessary and up to 500 could be useful) similar to the bookmarks individual players get. Each map would display bookmarks for a single galaxy and could be color coded with a map key displayed to the side of the map showing what each color represented. Each map would also have a title to indicate to members what it's importance was.

3. Permission to make changes to maps would automatically go to the GM and VGM as well as a special C (for cartographer) that could be given to select members who may be involved in leadership or trusted with organizing scouting.

4. Guild members could interact with the guild maps exactly the same as their own maps and bookmarks. This would include labels that would show up on mouse over to indicate important information about that specific bookmark.

5. This could be linked with an in-game db to allow guild leaders to create a list of bookmarks for a given map after doing a search. This would greatly ease map making and allow scouting information to be displayed quickly and effectively to all members.

Why would be this be awesome?

A. Guilds would be able to display the results of their scouting activities in a way that no list of coords can ever possibly do. You can visually see where your own jgs are, enemy jgs, enemy bases, wormholes etc., how they are arranged, clustered etc. You can list all available strategically important astros for colonization in a given galaxy. Guilds would be able to share information with their members much more effectively this way and planning ops would become much easier. I imagine there are uses that I haven't thought of. Overall I think this would raise the level of play of guilds significantly.

B. In a word, teamwork. One of the big frustrations that most guilds face is the task of coordinating people's efforts. These maps would greatly reduce the duplication of effort that often occurs when guilds organize to get scouting done or plan a stronghold etc. Being able to visually see the results of what you and your guildmates are doing is not only efficient it's also very gratifying to see a tangible result. I think this would encourage a lot more players to do scouting and it would build a greater sense of teamwork within guilds.

C. There are a lot of other features that could be added to these maps down the road. I'm trying to keep it simple for now but if a db is added in-game the possibilities are pretty huge.

Possible Issues

1. One possible issue is the additional memory required to store all those bookmarks. I think this is actually not that big of an issue when you consider that per player on the server you're not actually adding that many more bookmarks. If a guild has even 50 members and they get 50 bookmarks per map you're looking at 5 bookmarks per member. If necessary they could always scale back the number of individual bookmarks that players get to make up the difference. Since they're getting a much more effective tool in guild bookmarks they'd generally be better off.

2. What about small guilds? I think in this case it might be necessary to limit guild maps to guilds over a certain size who would have a much greater need for these maps anyway.

Those are the two main issues I could think of. I'm interested to hear your feedback.

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby lake » Mon 06 Jun, 2011 17:03

i think this would be a great idea. it would be good to help new players get into the game and encourage the new players to interact with their guild more

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby carbon dude oxide » Fri 08 Jul, 2011 10:30

it could make it so you have 1 map for every 10 players

so once a guild goes over 10 players it gets 2maps then when its got 20 then a 3rd map ect but there would be a maximum =D

this is a good idea it would defiantly help at war times ... being able to post up the locations of good enemy bases that you are too low for to allow higher guild mates to take it down for you =D

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby Ferdoc » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 01:03

This idea seems alright. Its not overtly flawed, I'm also out of coffee so the tiredness could have me miss some detail or lack of detail on some things that are critical.

It does provide an ingame function that, somewhat, limits the purpose of scripts. Now, why do I say this seems alright? The concept seems to be dependant on another idea to really flurish, see point #5.

All in all, I'm supportive of this concept.

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby CHERUB » Sun 10 Jul, 2011 05:10

Im impressed. I do know for a fact that this feature IS included in some DB's. I like this idea, and I feel it could go very well with a db feature in-game. I aplaud you for your efforts :clap:

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby Ko Tung-Yuen » Sun 10 Jul, 2011 19:38

/supported

would be a great thing to have.

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby Ragnarok Vampire » Wed 20 Jul, 2011 16:58

The bookmark limit is way too low. 50 bookmarks wouldnt even be able to cover your own guild's bases, let alone your enemies.

An example of this would be the war my guild is having in Juno. It is a two guild war, with each guild having 50+ members. We would need a lot more than 50 bookmarks to cover the locations of their bases. Bigger guilds would have even more issues.

Other than that detail. This is an Excellent idea. Thank you for posting.

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby CHERUB » Wed 20 Jul, 2011 17:32

But 50 bookmarks would be enough to cover all the high JG's and the most important strategical locations, I would think, yes?

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby Ragnarok Vampire » Wed 20 Jul, 2011 17:43

CHERUB wrote:But 50 bookmarks would be enough to cover all the high JG's and the most important strategical locations, I would think, yes?


No. Important strategical locations are- mass fleet building bases, High lv enemy jumpgates, and very high econ planets, in that order. You wouldn't be able to fit that in 50 bookmarks, especially when you count in occed bases that need to be freed/hit (to decrease economy of enemy). You also would want to bookmark every base that each guild member has, so that you know safe places to land region scouts. Under these guidelines (which are my strategist guidelines) 50 would be nowhere near enough. This would be further highlighted as you get into wars that have two very large (120+ players) guilds. There simply wouldn't be enough.

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby Ragnarok Vampire » Wed 20 Jul, 2011 18:04

I forgot to add that I like the multiple map idea too, but I don't think that you should get a new map for every 10 players, as that's a snub to small guilds. Each guild should get 4 maps or so.
1) friendly base locations
2) enemy base locations
3) fleet movement (add no bookmarks)
4) war map. add everything onto that one map.

thats all I can think of. Tell if theres more.

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby CHERUB » Wed 20 Jul, 2011 18:37

Mass fleet building bases and high econ bases? Those might be strategical on a player basis, but not a guild wide view. Having said that, I ran the numbers on some of my galaxies and stuff, and have concluded that you are right about 50 being too few. 65-70 seems like it would be a good number to me.

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby Ragnarok Vampire » Wed 20 Jul, 2011 18:56

CHERUB wrote:Mass fleet building bases and high econ bases? Those might be strategical on a player basis, but not a guild wide view. Having said that, I ran the numbers on some of my galaxies and stuff, and have concluded that you are right about 50 being too few. 65-70 seems like it would be a good number to me.


No, because if you can hit all their production bases, you limit their capacity counter-strikes. You hit their economy after that, to limit them further. If you hit enough of these, you can cripple an entire guild very easily. You aren't just thinking on a big enough scale.

Thanks for the agreement, though you still aren't thinking big enough. I would say about 300 bookmarks would be better, because you will want to be able to pin up every single base that the enemy has, regardless of target value. You would also need to pin up every guild member base, so you can be the most efficient when planning a multi-strike where you don't want them able to move their fleets before you wipe them out.

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby CHERUB » Wed 20 Jul, 2011 19:42

I have to ask, are you from the newer servers?

You don't need to have those as an absolute necessity on the maps though. High JGs, important tactical locations and targets, the same for enemy locations is all you really need on a tactical map. 300 bookmarks is too much. You should have to still use the strategy board for some things. I would go for 100 at most, but no more than that.

Also, people have been planning hits in large doses like that for ages - without the maps. We don't need them, but they would be a nice feature, but making them hugely powered with 300 bookmarks makes it too easy. You should have to do something the old way, if just to make a little bit more work for the people planning.

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby Ragnarok Vampire » Wed 20 Jul, 2011 19:46

CHERUB wrote:I have to ask, are you from the newer servers?

You don't need to have those as an absolute necessity on the maps though. High JGs, important tactical locations and targets, the same for enemy locations is all you really need on a tactical map. 300 bookmarks is too much. You should have to still use the strategy board for some things. I would go for 100 at most, but no more than that.

Also, people have been planning hits in large doses like that for ages - without the maps. We don't need them, but they would be a nice feature, but making them hugely powered with 300 bookmarks makes it too easy. You should have to do something the old way, if just to make a little bit more work for the people planning.


I have played on Ixion, Juno, and now Kappa, so yes the newer servers. I would still have to work, but I am a visual kinda guy. Its hard for me to plan when everything isn't laid out before me. I still need to inform everyone of their hits, and make sure that the hits are done pretty quickly. I would still be responsible for a lot, like getting my targets straight, not to mention the 101 variables that could always happen. I just want the process streamlined. 300 is too much, but then maybe 150. There would be a balance there somwhere.

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Re: Guild Maps

Postby CHERUB » Wed 20 Jul, 2011 19:50

I thought you might be from Ixion and stuff lol

Well 100 seems right for me, that spreads it out over many galaxies, but 2 people's opinions don't really mean a lot in the grand scheme of things, maybe we just need to wait for more people to weigh in :P

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