An Improvement to Corvettes

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An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Wlerin » Fri 21 Oct, 2011 21:52

With the recent spat of untenable carrier replacements over the past few days, I was reminded of an idea discussed among guildmates back when Helion was still alive and kicking, about a similar carrier alternative. However, rather than introducing a new ship, we settled on buffing an old, underutilized ship.

The corvette.

Before you go and take issue with "underutilized", think about it. What are corvettes used for? Sniping recyclers? FR/FT do nearly as well, let alone a BS or DN. Scouting? Scout ships, while larger and more fragile, are also nearly double the speed of corvettes, especially for warp-based specs. Fodder? Not on newer servers, unless you are building caps.

No one (well, almost no one) builds a corvette stack. The few people who tried it enjoyed it, but eventually moved on to a more traditional spec because it had too many limitations.

    1) They are stellar units, so loss of JG access will doom the entire fleet. Frigates have the same problem, but they at least carry their own fighters and can survive a little bit more confrontation.
    2) They are fast. This is both a strength and a weakness. It's a weakness because they are far faster than any existing carrier unit, and use a different drive technology than the most efficient carriers. Taking time to wait for carriers, and the fighter cover they bring, removes this specialization's main virtue.
    3) They have low power. HC and above can rape them if given the opportunity. Their speed allows them to escape most of the time, but a little added survivability would go a long way to making this a viable specialization in its own right.

Effectively, the CV swarm, the only viable "CV spec", is just an underpowered, expensive FT swarm. Aside from the speed there's no reason for anyone to use it, unless...

Corvettes had hangars.

[Update] Add half a hangar (0.5 hangars) to each Corvette unit. This actually makes perfect sense, as, according to the powers that be*, each unit of Fighters, Bombers, Heavy Bombers, and Ion Bombers represents multiple individual craft (hence why their names, alone among the ships of AE, are plural (e.g. "Fighters" vs. "Frigate" on the Production page)), which could be divided among multiple Corvettes, along with the supplies and crew necessary to maintain them. The cost-per-power of a CV+FT fleet with 0.5 hangars would now be 4.5:1, compared to 5:1 for Frigates or raw CVs, and 7:1 for fresh FC+FT (before refills). This is balanced by their low penetration vs. anything above Cruisers, as well as several other minor drawbacks.

It is my belief that, in addition to increasing the viability of CVs, this idea would also increase the popularity of Battleships as a shield-rape spec, in a similar fashion to the way the improvements to Frigates increased the popularity of Dreadnoughts. As such this a boost to not one, but two underutilised specializations.

*I can't be bothered to track down the original source, suffice to say that Wizard and/or Mike confirmed that hangar units are groups rather than single ships in some 3-D graphics related post. [/Update]

The ability to carry a limited number of fighters and/or bombers with them at CV speed would bring their ratios on par with most other specializations, though not quite bringing them to the godlike level of a FT swarm.

I think you will agree, once you have considered all the benefits this change would bring to AE, that Wizard should implement it post haste. :wink:


-----

[Old Text] Just one per ship. Nothing too extravagant. Because there is only one per ship, they would be limited to carry 1-hangar drop units like FT and BO. This limitation, coupled with their lower power means they won't replace Frigates, even though, with this change, both units would have the same number of hangars per credit. [/Old Text]
Last edited by Wlerin on Sun 06 Oct, 2013 01:15, edited 8 times in total.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby AggressiveTurtle » Fri 21 Oct, 2011 21:53

Yes.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Ugborg » Fri 21 Oct, 2011 22:04

I'm pretty sure odd numbers of hangar are just not going to work. How will they be able to tell the difference between vette hangar space and frigate hangar space? They'll have to figure out a way to keep track of that now, so they can make sure the restrictions are in place.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Wlerin » Fri 21 Oct, 2011 22:17

I suppose it would be difficult to track if you mixed different ships, and given the propensity of certain players to rainbow, that does need to be considered. I'm confident the problem can be overcome, however.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Pylinaer » Fri 21 Oct, 2011 22:27

2 hangar(maybe a cost increase?) I think would be better.

Corvettes are very nice for scout sniping and maybe some recycler protection in noob levels that's about it.. So I don't have a problem with this idea.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Wlerin » Fri 21 Oct, 2011 22:32

I considered a cost increase, but I don't think adjusting the credit value of an existing unit is a very good idea.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Naftal » Fri 21 Oct, 2011 22:36

1 hangar seems fine. But does it have to be restricted to FT/BO? Would HB/IB be too good to have? Of course it's unrealistic but since when has that been an issue in AE?

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Wlerin » Fri 21 Oct, 2011 22:43

The main issue to me is that both IB and HB are more powerful than the CV themselves. However, that limitation may not be enforceable with the current game mechanics.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Pylinaer » Fri 21 Oct, 2011 23:03

Naftal wrote:1 hangar seems fine. But does it have to be restricted to FT/BO? Would HB/IB be too good to have? Of course it's unrealistic but since when has that been an issue in AE?


HB/IB require 2 hangar slots...presumably because of power/size.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Naftal » Fri 21 Oct, 2011 23:55

Pylinaer wrote:
Naftal wrote:1 hangar seems fine. But does it have to be restricted to FT/BO? Would HB/IB be too good to have? Of course it's unrealistic but since when has that been an issue in AE?


HB/IB require 2 hangar slots...presumably because of power/size.


And 2 corvettes would have 2 hangar space, so they could carry one HB/IB...

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Pylinaer » Sat 22 Oct, 2011 01:31

Naftal wrote:
Pylinaer wrote:HB/IB require 2 hangar slots...presumably because of power/size.


And 2 corvettes would have 2 hangar space, so they could carry one HB/IB...


How do you split a bomber in half?

Edit: And how would it still be able to fight when you land?

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Ugborg » Sat 22 Oct, 2011 01:36

There is no bomber. It is only a number. A number split in half can be combined back into the original number.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Pylinaer » Sat 22 Oct, 2011 01:43

Ugborg wrote:There is no bomber. It is only a number. A number split in half can be combined back into the original number.


Thinking logically here. There would be have to be a bomber, otherwise the bomber isn't there meaning no hangar space. It would work in code but not logically. Plus why not make a bunch of other hangar space other numbers like from 4 to 5 to make it a better number? I believe the reason why it is all even numbers is to prevent splitting virtual ships in half and to make coding easier.

So either 0 hangar or 2 hangar or you can face Ribben's Guillotine.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Wlerin » Sat 22 Oct, 2011 02:25

Pylinaer wrote:
Ugborg wrote:There is no bomber. It is only a number. A number split in half can be combined back into the original number.


Thinking logically here. There would be have to be a bomber, otherwise the bomber isn't there meaning no hangar space. It would work in code but not logically. Plus why not make a bunch of other hangar space other numbers like from 4 to 5 to make it a better number? I believe the reason why it is all even numbers is to prevent splitting virtual ships in half and to make coding easier.

So either 0 hangar or 2 hangar or you can face Ribben's Guillotine.

That's not Ribben's Guillotine. In fact, the more appropriate catchphrase for this situation is AE > Reality.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Pylinaer » Sat 22 Oct, 2011 03:56

So why should this have an odd number of hangar when Everything else is even?

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