An Improvement to Corvettes

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby CHERUB » Sat 12 Nov, 2011 07:17

I have to say.... This is an interesting concept. And one that I would support, but only if vettes were changed to some other weapons tech. There should be some sort of split between techs here. All other specs have this as a balancing feature (at least, I assume it was a balancing feature), and the new vette spec would logically have to follow this.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Descolada » Thu 17 Nov, 2011 05:51

CHERUB wrote:I have to say.... This is an interesting concept. And one that I would support, but only if vettes were changed to some other weapons tech. There should be some sort of split between techs here. All other specs have this as a balancing feature (at least, I assume it was a balancing feature), and the new vette spec would logically have to follow this.

Indeed, but what would we replace Laser with? :think:

I've run tests on Calcs. If the tech is changed..power and armor may have to as well (as the vette overpowered alternate specs of the same tech.), the only suitable replacements would be Missle or Plasma (As anything else would be...absurd)

Any ideas?

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Big Buddz » Fri 18 Nov, 2011 07:50

What about instead of giving CVs the hangar give it to DEs? That gives the same ratio as CVs with a .5 hangar for a different weapon tech...

EDIT: Sorry, i meant give DEs a hangar of 1
Last edited by Big Buddz on Fri 18 Nov, 2011 23:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Descolada » Fri 18 Nov, 2011 14:42

Big Buddz wrote:What about instead of giving CVs the hangar give it to DEs? That gives the same ratio as CVs with a .5 hangar for a different weapon tech...

Yes...but how much hanger would a DE have? As vettes would have .5..would a Destroyer have 1? For tech that would actually work...along with hanger spaces equalizing with DE's and Frig power (As Frig is an alternative)

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby AggressiveTurtle » Sat 19 Nov, 2011 18:49

Thing is, if we change corvette from laser to another alternative, it will be much harder to corvette rush early game.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby CHERUB » Sun 20 Nov, 2011 01:52

ahhh that is a problem. I hadn't thought of that early-game problem. Changing tech, unless it is to missiles or something, would be a problem. I don't think we can do that.

Of course, we could always create another tech, specifically for vettes. But I doubt many people would like that option. If a new tech is a no-go for people, then it seems that Destroyers would be the best option.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Descolada » Mon 21 Nov, 2011 05:17

AggressiveTurtle wrote:Thing is, if we change corvette from laser to another alternative, it will be much harder to corvette rush early game.

True...Well, I ran tests on the calc and got the following...keep in mind, these are simple scenarios using well known specs. and I tried to balance credit amounts as best as I could realistically... (*)= credits
If tech changed to Missle...

4 vettes & 2 fighters (90) vs. 1 frig and 4 fighters (100) = All units lost, ratio 0.9

If vettes given .5 hanger, a vette fleet could always "tie" a frig fleet as long as about the ratio is about 0.9 vs. 1 creditwise Therefore, to balance the specs a vettes power and/or armor would need decreasing to be "fair"

If tech changed to plasma...

10 vettes & 5 fighters (225) vs. 1 cruiser & 4 fighters (220 = (145) and (220) in losses so this would be...worse.

Of course, attacking anything HC+ would result in rape, and I didnt test vs. ALL popular specs. Just ones a tech swap would replace. Therefore in my opinion, if .5 hanger is given, only also change power and armor, which leaves the question, what would the change be? :eh:

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Ron Burgandy » Thu 24 Nov, 2011 06:31

Elite0fDarkne55 wrote:Therefore, to balance the specs a vettes power and/or armor would need decreasing to be "fair"

It's not about being "fair", what this thread is basically asking for is a faster and more efiicient frigate that shares the same tech as the fighters it is carrying.

This is enough for me to throw the red flag and say NO.[/quote]

Elite0fDarkne55 wrote:If tech changed to plasma...

Then it wouldn't be a corvette and needs a completely different thread..

[quote="Elite0fDarkne55"Therefore in my opinion, if .5 hanger is given, only also change power and armor, which leaves the question, what would the change be? :eh:[/quote]
Do we roll this out in the newer servers only or the older ones as well?
How do we roll this out?
What major impact(s) will this have on the game, both positive and negative?

I mean, these are all things, that after an admitedly, quick read through of this topic are clearly missing and need to be addressed.

...lol plus why should i tell you?? your the one who wants to jump in and bite the lion on the nuts
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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Descolada » Thu 24 Nov, 2011 16:52

I didn't address them cause I dont believe I have the AE experience to address them effectively.

Notice the " marks around fair? I'm signifying the spec needs to be balanced with others, but giving it thought the spec reaches its effectiveness at HC's (which Shield rapes or nearly shield rapes depending on tech levels) so perhaps a power/armor change wouldn't be necessary. :think:

But as I said, my experience is quite small (only played 2 servers) So an experienced player would have better arguements, but these are simply my thoughts.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Pylinaer » Fri 25 Nov, 2011 02:50

Ron Burgandy wrote:Do we roll this out in the newer servers only or the older ones as well?
How do we roll this out?
What major impact(s) will this have on the game, both positive and negative?

I mean, these are all things, that after an admitedly, quick read through of this topic are clearly missing and need to be addressed.


A. All servers.
B. Umm... 1 week notice --> boom! implemented
C. Positive - Corvettes are no longer mostly useless. Now they are kinda useless just like frigs. Negative - Earlier fighter drops. Ability for lower lvl players to fighter drop.

Probably some more negatives, but that's a brief overview.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Hellion » Sat 26 Nov, 2011 12:10

@OP

I like the idea and after much thought of what I could find wrong with it I didn't find any... I am pretty much with the idea of adding the 1 hangar and against the idea of splitting the techs as read in some later posts. Trying to improve vettes in other areas shouldn't involve crippling them in other areas. The other advantage being that vettes can also become a double scout meaning you drop them in 1 region and leave a fighter than move it to another region. It has some potential in a few directions that are not entirely combat role only. This would also be good for moving fleet into a snipe through a fast launch and dropping fighters and getting out.

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Ron Burgandy » Sat 26 Nov, 2011 20:04

Ron Burgandy wrote:Do we roll this out in the newer servers only or the older ones as well?

Pylinaer wrote:A. All servers.

Fair enough answer.
How will this change effect the older servers vs. the newer ones?
What type of advantage would people who already have a sizable amount of these have vs. people who don't have any already?

Ron Burgandy wrote:How do we roll this out?

Pylinaer wrote:B. Umm... 1 week notice --> boom! implemented

No. You need much more than one wek to impliment such a big change into the game.
I return to my question above: What type of advantage would people who already have a sizable amount of these have vs. people who don't have any already?

Ron Burgandy wrote:What major impact(s) will this have on the game, both positive and negative?

Pylinaer wrote:C. Positive - Corvettes are no longer mostly useless.

Do you play the game?? If so, you should already know that corvettes are FAR from useless.
1. Good to use as scouts
2. Sniping recs out of big fleets
3. Meat shield for frig and cruiser fleets

Pylinaer wrote:Now they are kinda useless just like frigs.

Again, do you play the game???
Frigates are one of the more popular specs around because: they hold just as many fighters as a cruiser: and have more power/armour per credit than cruisers: and are faster than cruisers: and are the same speed as destroyers which are great meatshield: etc.

Pylinaer wrote: Negative - Earlier fighter drops. Ability for lower lvl players to fighter drop.

One day earlier?
Yeah, let's give the most potent spec in the game a day head start.
Really, do you play the game????

Pylinaer wrote:Probably some more negatives, but that's a brief overview.

You mentioned exactly ZERO negatives..

...lol plus why should i tell you?? your the one who wants to jump in and bite the lion on the nuts
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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Ugborg » Tue 29 Nov, 2011 04:55

Ron Burgandy wrote:
Ron Burgandy wrote:How do we roll this out?

Pylinaer wrote:B. Umm... 1 week notice --> boom! implemented

No. You need much more than one wek to impliment such a big change into the game.

Timeline is as follows:
Identify and make changes to non-live code.
Test the changes on test servers.
Prepare a final code change and schedule your update time.
Give users a one week notice(as Pylinaer says above)
Then perform update.

Obviously Pylinaer was not saying that you only spend 1 week in total, that would be ridiculous. He's saying once you have a stable and satisfactory change to the code, inform the users and one week later perform the update.

Did you think he recommended telling the users and then needlessly giving yourself only one week to change the code and test it? Seriously?

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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Ron Burgandy » Tue 29 Nov, 2011 23:39

Ugborg wrote:Did you think he recommended telling the users and then needlessly giving yourself only one week to change the code and test it? Seriously?

Not at all, what he meant, at least the way I read into it, is to inform the AE general populous of the impending change and implement it one week later.

What this means is:
1. People who have copious amounts of corvettes already have an unfair advantage because those corvettes instantly become better.
2. People already with corvettes will inherit a super fast carrier unit, faster than frigates.

This what I was pointing out, one week is not nearly enough time to give before implementation.

...lol plus why should i tell you?? your the one who wants to jump in and bite the lion on the nuts
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Re: An Improvement to Corvettes

Postby Ugborg » Thu 01 Dec, 2011 13:42

Ron Burgandy wrote:
Ugborg wrote:Did you think he recommended telling the users and then needlessly giving yourself only one week to change the code and test it? Seriously?

Not at all, what he meant, at least the way I read into it, is to inform the AE general populous of the impending change and implement it one week later.

What this means is:
1. People who have copious amounts of corvettes already have an unfair advantage because those corvettes instantly become better.
2. People already with corvettes will inherit a super fast carrier unit, faster than frigates.

This what I was pointing out, one week is not nearly enough time to give before implementation.

Fortunately we can use history as our guide on this one.

http://forum.astroempires.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1982
1 week implementation

http://forum.astroempires.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=77670
1 week implementation

Unfortunately, I can't find the frigate hangar change in the Dev Log.

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