Making New and Non-competitive Accounts Competitive

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Carnage 101
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Making New and Non-competitive Accounts Competitive

Postby Carnage 101 » Wed 02 May, 2012 23:03

The following idea is developed to bridge the gap between low level or poorly developed account versus well developed accounts and is dependent on server levels. It helps an active server reach a level of balance to ensure all players whether new or old are at a level that they can compete at against each other. This also ensures well developed accounts can recover quickly enough as well post war.

Re: Ability for higher level player to help boost technology levels of lower level players to make them competitive on server while in turn gaining higher income temporarily.

Conditions that have to be met for this to be achieved
Lower Level Player
1) Lower level player has to be above level 30

2) He must already have gained minimum of 5 levels of tachyon with 4 bases linked and one tachy. free

3) He must be below 65% of higher level players technology level and 55% below higher player level. Going above any of these levels will prevent any further research link capability.

4) During link lower level player will be able to use higher levels research capacity to conduct research.
    a. Research cannot be qued
    b. Each research once started can only be cancelled by lower level player at a 20% penalty to technology cost
    c. Research will be initiated when both parties agree to the research, which will be similar to trade request but will highlight research requested and time taken along with economy gain per hour to higher level player without revealing who either party is.
    d. Lower level players research commander influences only.
    e. Research will be paid by lower level player.
    f. Lower level player will suffer a 30% penalty to overall econ. which will be gained by the higher level player during the period of research per hour. Also lower level players will suffer same penalties to production and construction as if being occupied with recovery times to return to normal taking the same time as well on all bases. Penalties to economy if occupied can stack with research penalties however penalties to production and construction will not stack.
    g. After research link will be terminated until a new request is made.
    h. A new request can be made immediately after if needed. Economic penalty will be considered maximum to a 30% reduction from original economy. No guarantee that same capacity or research level (i.e. same higher level player) will be present for new request. So one research cap. may be at 6000 while another at 4000.
    i. Both players do not have to be within the same guild as they will both remain anonymous.
    j. This is an Upgrade special feature to both players.
    k. Research once started can only be completed or cancelled regardless of whether lower level player produces new fleet that takes his level above the 45% cutoff of higher level player.
    l. Individual players bases will not show the decrease in economy only overall empire economy will be lowered. This also serves to leave other players clueless as to who is receiving help when individual bases are viewed.

5) Higher level player cannot que research during link time.
    a. During link he gets a 30% boost to econ. equivalent to lower level player penalty to economy.
    b. If research takes over 100 hrs, higher level player will realize a 0.5% boost to extra income based on lower level players economy every 100 hrs that passes and lower level player will also experience a equivalent penalty to economy to a maximum of 45% of lower level players income.
    c. To make said link, higher level player needs a minimum of Tachyon level 14 with 13 bases linked and one link open. Minimum research capacity required for establishing a link is 3900 capacity. This ensures that the research is not purposefully dragged on longer than necessary
    d. Higher level player will not suffer any additional penalties except not being able to research until link has been severed.

6) Lower level players will submit a request and the server will best match with higher level player who also submits a request as well to whether they would like to accept research link request. Once request sent lower level player will not be able to do research unless he cancels request for which no penalty in suffered. Said funds for research will also be blocked till request is either accepted or cancelled.

7) Name of persons or accounts being linked to will never be revealed. This is to prevent being zero fleeted by higher level player to help increase technology research ability of lower level player and other potential abuse methods. This also helps both players participate in ops and guild wars etc without knowing who is being helped.

8) Link is limited to 1 link every 14 Tachyon levels. In future should game mechanics allow for higher levels of technology to be achieved perhaps more than 1 link may be entertained. As of right now this is a limiting factor for having more than one link.

Purpose: This is to help newbies and lower tech guild members on server realize a quicker mode of gaining technology and becoming competitive especially in an old server. Higher level player have an additional source of income to help feed their prods, construction or future research etc which at their level would be high on average. Though it is not necessary for a higher level player to be zero fleeted the additional boost in econ. apart from being incentive can help him (recover faster post war) in any number of ways while the lower players has the advantage of being now competitive especially on an old server. However the higher level player will be disadvantaged by not being able to que technology which can take weeks to months to finish end game and can give a chance for the lower level players to at least close the gap a little to become more competitive on server.
This has very little potential for abuse as the requirement of 55% player level difference and 65% difference in technology cost compared to the person helping will ensure that the competitiveness is still maintained while not overpowering lower level players or higher level players.

Below is a table showing how this idea will work. The caps are high level players should have minimum 3900 research capacity minimum, 14 Tachyon researched with 13 linked and one free. Low level player should be 55% lower than high level players level or Technology should be 65% of high level players technology (further research stops at whichever is attained first either level or tech. cap).

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Last edited by Carnage 101 on Sun 06 May, 2012 19:22, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Making New and Non-competitive Accounts Competitive

Postby Flinx » Wed 02 May, 2012 23:17

For the most part, i like this, although the only "higher" level players I see using it would be simmers, as most active combatants wouldn't want to give up the use of their tech banks for that long of a time.

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Re: Making New and Non-competitive Accounts Competitive

Postby Carnage 101 » Thu 03 May, 2012 01:13

I see this being used mainly post war when tech is stopped and econ is diverted to rebuild on the losing side. This also is a time when existing lower accounts can be strengthened.

Also higher the lower account technology, higher will be the level of the player who can help him and assuming (though not necessary) higher research capacity faster will be the research. So I don't suspect as many high level players will be stuck helping too long.

End game many may rather help lower accounts up than say put research in 5000+ hrs research. This is good that it brings all accounts to a competitive level. Simmers at high level are welcome to bring the lower level and newbie accounts up. But they can only do till level caps are reached. So newer servers initially will not benefit for a while from this which is good and no one is overpowered.

Its also maybe a way of speeding up the game and keeping people playing by increasing recovery time without changing main game mechanics and introducing new structures

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Re: Making New and Non-competitive Accounts Competitive

Postby Carnage 101 » Sun 06 May, 2012 22:31

Guys I have asked the moderator to forward this to the workshop. If anyone spots anything wrong with this suggested request or sees any problems that I may have overlooked, please bring it forward. Thanks

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Re: Making New and Non-competitive Accounts Competitive

Postby Achilles » Sun 06 May, 2012 23:47

Why do we want/need this idea? (AE)


- Helps retain more existing players by faster recovery if zero fleeted
- Helps gain more player on each server as they don’t have to wait years to reach an average competitive level.
- Does not change existing mechanisms of combat or give any account an added advantage.
- I’ve already mentioned this as an upgraded account feature which ensures more income to AE if players wish to take advantage of this.
What are some downsides for this idea?



To AE perhaps coding in the formulas and creating a database that selects the two players and pairs the best match among the pool available.

To players
- Since both parties have to agree to it after the server provides the anonymous request, the higher level player may be more inclined to help lower level accounts with good economy to maximize their short term gain. So very new accounts may not be helped as much as better economy developed lower level accounts. However since this game is based on three variables i.e. fleet, technology and economy, the new player will have to at least have a good economy to support his technology, construction and fleet production costs anyway. So I view it as good to get newer players focused on economy while the members on the server can help develop their technology a little.

The other downsides that I could predict have solutions and have been addressed. Some of the downsides I could see were
- Areas of potential abuse can be, high level player offers to help the lower level player for monetary gain.
- High level player only selectively helps his friends within guild gain and further contributes to difference between dominant guild and other server guilds.
- People with multi-accounts level up their lower level accounts for extra economy gain.
- High level player purposefully tries to slow down his research to derive maximum gain from lower level players economy.
- Lower level player offers higher level player to derb all fleet to maximize research gain to in exchange for research.
To address these issues I have put 4 caps i.e. two level caps and one research cap and one tachyon requirement in place to prevent abuse. I will demonstrate how it works


If a higher level player is at level 150 on the server, he has the capability of training a new person from level 30 all the way up to 55% of his level which is at level 82.50. This is important as the level of research for a player who is at level 150 can vary from 100% of level which is around 500 million to 1/7th of his level which at 72 million while the rest of the level is contributed by fleet. The problem arises if even half the research level at 250 million approximately would contribute to a possible research gain to lower level player of 65% of level which is 162,500,000. To avert this, the low level player level cap at 55% of higher level player was put in place. At level 83, if the player were to zero fleet themselves they would at maximum be able to only research till 46 million.

On the other hand if only 72 million of tech was achieved by the level 150 player then he could only help the player achieve 65% of tech level which is still 46 million. If the high level player has even lower technology then he must satisfy the other caps anyway as well which are 14 Tachyon, 13 of which are linked and the total research cap is higher than 3900. This ensures that whichever cap is reached first the research will be fast enough.

Keeping both parties anonymous serves to prevent any favoritism and guild preference. This ensures all lower level players get an equal opportunity to level up. Also it ensures that if say the highest level player on the server wishes to gain economy, all lower level players have an equal chance of being paired with a 6000 research capacity player. Also to prevent abuse the research link is limited to only one research at a time. So both players even if they figure out who the other player is, they still have to enter a pool of eligible players which the server pairs the quickest research pair together.
Any further potential abuse has not been revealed or has not been brought to my attention.
Why would players want this?


- Faster recovery potential for zero fleeted accounts
- Elimination of disparity in level between new accounts and older existing accounts
- More new players joining servers who would have earlier thought that catching up to server average on servers like Alpha was an impossible idea.
- This can be applied to all servers and is more dependent on average players level on server depending on politics etc. So it is very adaptable.
As servers gets older most of the players on average are already 1 - 3 years ahead. Many as seen still join older servers whether new or older players coming back only to quit when they realize that they can neither fight of an occupation or have to spend years playing catch up before they can be effective or inherit another players account. To become competitive many of these new players will now be more encouraged to actually build up past level 30 and have a chance to reach a decent level of technology to not only have production at a more competitive level but also needed fleet technology to attack most players on server. This would help answer some of the “how to stop players from quitting or keep newer players on the server from being slowed or farmed due to the level difference of players on average farming them”. Realistically speaking even with command centers lower level player do not have the production capability to produce enough fleet to effectively free an occupation especially if held by a determined higher level player who would like to see them move to a different galaxy than stay in theirs. Improving their technology gives them a better fighting chance on any server they join.
The other side to this is already existing older members would be encouraged to help newer players as a way of generating more economy (30% of lower level players empire income) to put towards production or construction etc. This is especially helpful when the players are zero fleeted and just don’t have the necessary income required to build fleet and keep ques running. This is especially more so with top level accounts who have 20,000 production and need to generate around 5 -10 million to have all ques running. The downside of-course
This idea would help decrease recovery time of existing players while encouraging more participation from new players.

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Re: Making New and Non-competitive Accounts Competitive

Postby Hellion » Wed 11 Jul, 2012 23:52

Its a neat concept. I think it may benefit the server a little bit to allow more ways to assist other players a tad.

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Re: Making New and Non-competitive Accounts Competitive

Postby Khamul Nazgul » Sun 10 Mar, 2013 16:16

To AE perhaps coding in the formulas and creating a database that selects the two players and pairs the best match among the pool available.
The other downsides that I could predict have solutions and have been addressed. Some of the downsides I could see were
- Areas of potential abuse can be, high level player offers to help the lower level player for monetary gain.
- High level player only selectively helps his friends within guild gain and further contributes to difference between dominant guild and other server guilds.
- People with multi-accounts level up their lower level accounts for extra economy gain.
- High level player purposefully tries to slow down his research to derive maximum gain from lower level players economy.
- Lower level player offers higher level player to derb all fleet to maximize research gain to in exchange for research.


I think I can help here.

To avoid Abuse of this,
Make it so both the Higher Level and Lower Level are Anonymous, they don't know who each-other are the entire time, through-out the entire process.
Make it randomized.

Stops the Monetary gain.
Stops High levels selectively only helping his friends within guild gain.
Stops multi accounts from selectively choosing their own accounts to maximize.
Stop Low levels offering high level their fleet, as well who are they to know who is helping them.

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Re: Making New and Non-competitive Accounts Competitive

Postby Sandcastle Smasher » Wed 13 Mar, 2013 10:12

Carnage 101 wrote:f. Lower level player will suffer a 30% penalty to overall econ. which will be gained by the higher level player during the period of research per hour. Also lower level players will suffer same penalties to production and construction as if being occupied with recovery times to return to normal taking the same time as well on all bases. Penalties to economy if occupied can stack with research penalties however penalties to production and construction will not stack.


As a tech whore i can find this part being extremely exploitable.
I always have spare tech cap to share and what would stop me econ whoring a multi, not building any fleet and then using it to gain 30% of its economy?
I could build up a second account to 6k econ easily enough and add it to my account gaining me 2k econ.

Anyway to stop that exploit?

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Re: Making New and Non-competitive Accounts Competitive

Postby Carnage 101 » Mon 27 May, 2013 20:58

Sandcastle Smasher wrote:
Carnage 101 wrote:f. Lower level player will suffer a 30% penalty to overall econ. which will be gained by the higher level player during the period of research per hour. Also lower level players will suffer same penalties to production and construction as if being occupied with recovery times to return to normal taking the same time as well on all bases. Penalties to economy if occupied can stack with research penalties however penalties to production and construction will not stack.


As a tech whore i can find this part being extremely exploitable.
I always have spare tech cap to share and what would stop me econ whoring a multi, not building any fleet and then using it to gain 30% of its economy?
I could build up a second account to 6k econ easily enough and add it to my account gaining me 2k econ.

Anyway to stop that exploit?


Sorry, Its been a long time since I've logged into the forums. Been busy, but to answer your question:

6) Lower level players will submit a request and the server will best match with higher level player who also submits a request as well to whether they would like to accept research link request. Once request sent lower level player will not be able to do research unless he cancels request for which no penalty in suffered. Said funds for research will also be blocked till request is either accepted or cancelled.


Randomization: The problem of multis will always persist, but no account can reach a level higher than the caps provided. As they level up fewer accounts will be available to assist them. Also there is no way of realistically trying to get your account to pair with your multi account since its randomized after every tech is done.

7) Name of persons or accounts being linked to will never be revealed. This is to prevent being zero fleeted by higher level player to help increase technology research ability of lower level player and other potential abuse methods. This also helps both players participate in ops and guild wars etc without knowing who is being helped.

No favorites. You could be helping a low level enemy tech up. Of course there is a potential that at a very high level only a handful of people who are tech whores could carry the account a bit further but the limitations in place would prevent it being overpowered as shown in Chart.

8) Link is limited to 1 link every 14 Tachyon levels. In future should game mechanics allow for higher levels of technology to be achieved perhaps more than 1 link may be entertained. As of right now this is a limiting factor for having more than one link.

the only way you could help more than one player is if you had tachyon level 28+ . thats not going to happen in this game anytime soon. lol.

So to summaries:
- Randomization
- Unknown Identities, so no favorites
- Limitation to 1 person at a time.

Talking about credits. Assuming your a top ranked account with 22k to 25k prod capacity you would need 500,000+ credits to run your prods for 24 hrs at least. Assuming an upper end econ. of 16,000 credit/hr that is 384,000 credits/24 hrs. Even if you helped an individual with assuming 10,000 credits/day econ., at 30% of that you would be getting an additional 3000 c/hr i.e. 72,000 c/24 hrs which translates to 456,000 c/day while a nice boost still is not enough to run prods at full capacity. You would easily need an additional 100,000 - 200,000 credits to run prods and the only way is to supplement it with occs. or hunting.

Now assuming all this wouldn't it be easier just to hunt for a target or help some newbie rather than multi with no guarantee that your account will paired together?

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Re: Making New and Non-competitive Accounts Competitive

Postby Carnage 101 » Mon 27 May, 2013 21:56

Everyone please read the entire Op idea and the subsequent explanation of the chart (which Achilles has posted) as a gameplay example. The last two threads questions and suggestions by both Nazgul and SandCastle have already been explained in detail in the original post.

I understand it is tediously long and so I tried making it easier to read in bullet form and a chart and further explaining its mechanics with an example in a subsequent post.

Any further questions if solutions are already posted I will just refer you back to op thread.

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