Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

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Rajam
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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby Rajam » Mon 17 Sep, 2012 19:28

As for the 'better case' presented here, do you feel numbers like that to be beneficial?
If by better case you are referring to your mechanic then I feel that anything is better than nothing. If your referring to roughly 50 - 60% fleet needed to take down a blob(best case scenario for attacker, worst for defender) then yes, that seems appropriate.

I still think I prefer the simplicity of a debuff. Yours is in essence the same but requires a lot more calculations based on time, guild, units and damage. I'd prefer something more straightforward.

Since a blob has to park on an astro in order to be a blob why not make a ANTI Command Center(meaning it would only be used by an attacker) start being "built" after 48 hours. Once a fleet has been at a certain location this ACC will slowly be "repaired", much like defenses. Say it repairs and 5% per day to a maximum of 40 - 60% It would completely disappear once there were no ships present.

Something like this is more like a ticking time bomb in everyone's eyes. It is there and keeps getting bigger. It is visible to everyone(with eyes of course). It will drive people to desire to move and make attackers Want to attack. Use your math as the base but follow the KISS rule.

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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby Ferdoc » Tue 18 Sep, 2012 04:38

The math behind it is not very complex really. Shield Value * units lost * multiplier = damage dealt. Hardly more complex than current combat for the average user. Attack power * (1 +tech bonus) * units available = damage dealt. Yes, shield value does take into account base value * (1+tech bonus), however that is just 1 more step. As for the activation, yes that is a bit to think about and prepare for. The same goes for most other anti-blob mechanics. The only difference is that rather than do a blanket approach I've attempted to define a blob. Hardly a simple task.

As to the structure, the blob would be required to be on that particular astro and it would be governed by the amount of levels it had.

Something like that I don't even consider, and empty astro negates it unless you put it on ALL astros in the game.

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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby Rajam » Tue 18 Sep, 2012 04:56

I'n not trying to move this off on a tangent. Back to the thread.:)

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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby kris » Tue 18 Sep, 2012 10:18

Ferdoc wrote: Something like that I don't even consider, and empty astro negates it unless you put it on ALL astros in the game.
And what you still fail to grasp is that somebody has to actually attack for this to mean anything therefore the big blobs wont actually move.

The only people this will benefit is a suicider. It wont help splitting up the biggest blobs in the game.

As for your figures of attacking a 1b blob with 500m maybe you could take down a blob of ucs but you wouldnt be able to take down a half decent guild like that. Also Im assuming your talking about a new server, because on an older one 1b is hardly even a blob

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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby Ferdoc » Tue 18 Sep, 2012 17:05

kris wrote:
Ferdoc wrote: Something like that I don't even consider, and empty astro negates it unless you put it on ALL astros in the game.
And what you still fail to grasp is that somebody has to actually attack for this to mean anything therefore the big blobs wont actually move.
Weird item to quote to make your first on-topic post. Of course its that way Kris. Otherwise its random damage for the sake of random damage. Giving power to players in smaller guilds to have a better chance to inflict damage and counter a PLAYER created issue is the point.
kris wrote:The only people this will benefit is a suicider. It wont help splitting up the biggest blobs in the game.
First off [citation needed] on the first part. The latter part assumes pure lock-step mentality of all involved in a power block. Also you assume players won't fear the risk of being targeted for 'high damage value' fleet compositions.
kris wrote:As for your figures of attacking a 1b blob with 500m maybe you could take down a blob of ucs but you wouldnt be able to take down a half decent guild like that. Also Im assuming your talking about a new server, because on an older one 1b is hardly even a blob
I'm assuming you didn't actually read what was posted, otherwise you wouldn't have written this part. Please go back, read, and demonstrate an understanding of what is occurring in the thread. Otherwise its just non-sense (reads: spam).

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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby Soundwave » Tue 18 Sep, 2012 18:51

I dont like anti blob ideas. Blob is strategical expansion of game , made by players , not the game. Changing the game to change players behavious looks ... not good.

Instead of this , give the game new strategical concept that will make blobing obsolete.

That should be the goal.

Quiting this *beep* game.

*beep* you all.
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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby kris » Wed 19 Sep, 2012 12:57

[quote="Ferdoc]
Weird item to quote to make your first on-topic post. Of course its that way Kris. Otherwise its random damage for the sake of random damage. Giving power to players in smaller guilds to have a better chance to inflict damage and counter a PLAYER created issue is the point.[/quote]

Wierd how?

You think i'm going to go through every little piece of this idea when the idea as a whole is just so so silly.

Writing pages and pages on an idea doesn't make it a good one.

First off [citation needed] on the first part.
how is a citation needed, i'm telling you myself not asking anyone else.
The latter part assumes pure lock-step mentality of all involved in a power block. Also you assume players won't fear the risk of being targeted for 'high damage value' fleet compositions.
I don't really know what you are saying here.

Maybe you don't understand what i'm saying. The Heiho blob will not be attacked, will not move and basically this idea wont change a thing.

Because no fleet will attack it, it would be suicide to do so.

On the other hand an idea such as mine would force the blob to move because a black hole sucking up various percentages of peoples ships would be a significant reason to move it.
I'm assuming you didn't actually read what was posted, otherwise you wouldn't have written this part. Please go back, read, and demonstrate an understanding of what is occurring in the thread. Otherwise its just non-sense (reads: spam).
I read exactly what you said

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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby Ferdoc » Thu 20 Sep, 2012 06:53

kris wrote:
Wierd how?

You think i'm going to go through every little piece of this idea when the idea as a whole is just so so silly.

Writing pages and pages on an idea doesn't make it a good one.
You quoted my comment about something that isn't apart of the concept and decided to be on topic while quoting it. Yea, sorry about that. I just assumed that while posting in FR people would actually read what they are commenting on it. Kris, I suggest you re-read the OP and ask yourself "does my last comment here show that I read and understand the OP?" IF you come back with an answer other than "No." or some iteration of it, please refrain from posting as this shows you don't know what's going on, nor what has been posted already in quite frankly my shortest FR ever.



how is a citation needed, i'm telling you myself not asking anyone else.
The phrase "citation needed" is used when an assertion is made whose validity is dubious at best. You claim the only people who would benefit from this idea are suiciders without offering one iota of evidence to validate it. The claim is made in the hopes that you would provide proof to validate your statement. We both know you can't prove it, and the history of blob crashed provide evidence to the contrary; aggressive attackers could have and would benefit from something like this if it was implemented.
The latter part assumes pure lock-step mentality of all involved in a power block. Also you assume players won't fear the risk of being targeted for 'high damage value' fleet compositions.
I don't really know what you are saying here.
You assume that people will always act the way you want them to even when they gain access to power that enables them to NOT have to do it when the survival of their forces is the main deciding factor in their choices. You also believe that blobbing players with high amounts of splash potential fleets won't fear becoming target #1 on a blob, and not seek methods and change behaviors to help prevent themselves from becoming floating balls of death for their guild-mates.
Maybe you don't understand what i'm saying. The Heiho blob will not be attacked, will not move and basically this idea wont change a thing.
AE is more than Ceti. However currently the Heiho blob will not be attacked. The change will start forcing Heiho members to consider "hmm, maybe an active group could come in and hurt us bad since we just sit around for long periods of time".

I'm glad to see you can't remain on the topic here.
I read exactly what you said
Then by all means tell the class what you read Kris. Don't copy / paste. Use your own words to reiterate what was said between myself and Rammy.

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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby kris » Thu 20 Sep, 2012 12:53

Ferdoc wrote: The phrase "citation needed" is used when an assertion is made whose validity is dubious at best. You claim the only people who would benefit from this idea are suiciders without offering one iota of evidence to validate it. The claim is made in the hopes that you would provide proof to validate your statement.
The citation is coming from me. I told you that. I have more experience than most in running blobs and top guilds/alliances and I am telling you what would happen in this situation.

Who else do you expect me to get a citation from?

We both know you can't prove it, and the history of blob crashed provide evidence to the contrary; aggressive attackers could have and would benefit from something like this if it was implemented.
lol, the history of blob crashes prooves that for a crash to be successful whoever is organizing it needs to know what hes doing and wont rely on some random formula that may or may not work.
You assume that people will always act the way you want them to even when they gain access to power that enables them to NOT have to do it when the survival of their forces is the main deciding factor in their choices. You also believe that blobbing players with high amounts of splash potential fleets won't fear becoming target #1 on a blob, and not seek methods and change behaviors to help prevent themselves from becoming floating balls of death for their guild-mates.
No. they wont, for the same reason that they don't fear suiciders even though its happened many times


AE is more than Ceti. However currently the Heiho blob will not be attacked. The change will start forcing Heiho members to consider "hmm, maybe an active group could come in and hurt us bad since we just sit around for long periods of time".
no it wont

and since when did having a blob mean people just sit around?

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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby Winchester » Thu 20 Sep, 2012 13:09

Kris, quick question. What does moving the blob accomplish when your alliance outnumbers their next largest opponent by ~50,000,000,000? Mind you, I'm not trying to criticize, but am asking a genuine question. In the event of a huge disparity in blob size - meaning tens of billions of fleet - do you believe that simply moving the blob will in any way, shape, or form become a true anti-blob measure and allow someone to contest that blob?

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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby kris » Thu 20 Sep, 2012 14:17

Ribbentrop wrote:Kris, quick question. What does moving the blob accomplish when your alliance outnumbers their next largest opponent by ~50,000,000,000? Mind you, I'm not trying to criticize, but am asking a genuine question. In the event of a huge disparity in blob size - meaning tens of billions of fleet - do you believe that simply moving the blob will in any way, shape, or form become a true anti-blob measure and allow someone to contest that blob?
Your numbers are inaccurate, The SU is not what you think it is. Anyway that's irrelevant.

Before we won there were equal sized alliances and if you go back to then Ferdocs measures would have changed nothing.

As for moving the blob well that is how we killed the anti su, every time their blob moved we broke them down a billion or two at a time. Then eventually we were able to crash 6b inactives in the 20s and that meant there actives had no safe blob to stay on.

Had they stayed on the blob in 20s we wouldnt have been able to crash them so easily.

Thats an example of how when a blob moves it becomes weak.

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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby Winchester » Thu 20 Sep, 2012 14:20

kris wrote:
Ribbentrop wrote:Kris, quick question. What does moving the blob accomplish when your alliance outnumbers their next largest opponent by ~50,000,000,000? Mind you, I'm not trying to criticize, but am asking a genuine question. In the event of a huge disparity in blob size - meaning tens of billions of fleet - do you believe that simply moving the blob will in any way, shape, or form become a true anti-blob measure and allow someone to contest that blob?
Your numbers are inaccurate, The SU is not what you think it is. Anyway that's irrelevant.

Before we won there were equal sized alliances and if you go back to then these measures would have changed nothing.
Okay, but that doesn't address my question. For one thing, I'm not even talking about Ferdoc's idea yet (Ferdoc, forgive the minor tangent; I'm going somewhere with this), but rather your counterclaim that we need to get the blob moving. But for another thing, if your idea of forcing the blobs to move only affects servers that still have comparable alliance sizes, then it isn't particularly relevant. How does making the blob move now do anything as an anti-blob idea? Ceti isn't the only server with one mega-blob and a significantly smaller opponent.

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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby kris » Thu 20 Sep, 2012 14:31

Okay, but that doesn't address my question. For one thing, I'm not even talking about Ferdoc's idea yet (Ferdoc, forgive the minor tangent; I'm going somewhere with this), but rather your counterclaim that we need to get the blob moving. But for another thing, if your idea of forcing the blobs to move only affects servers that still have comparable alliance sizes, then it isn't particularly relevant. How does making the blob move now do anything as an anti-blob idea? Ceti isn't the only server with one mega-blob and a significantly smaller opponent.
By getting the blob moving it leaves targets behind due to the inactives that are left behind. If the blob stays there are no targets.

As for the second part of your question obviously if every opponent is dead then it wont work. But nothing is going to work if there are no opponents.

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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby Ferdoc » Thu 20 Sep, 2012 15:13

kris wrote:
Ferdoc wrote: The phrase "citation needed" is used when an assertion is made whose validity is dubious at best. You claim the only people who would benefit from this idea are suiciders without offering one iota of evidence to validate it. The claim is made in the hopes that you would provide proof to validate your statement.
The citation is coming from me. I told you that. I have more experience than most in running blobs and top guilds/alliances and I am telling you what would happen in this situation.
I'm asking you to PROVE your statement. Hence the request for evidence. And before you try to say "well you should disprove it" the burden is on your shoulders to prove your assertion that this idea helps suiciders only.

kris wrote:
We both know you can't prove it, and the history of blob crashed provide evidence to the contrary; aggressive attackers could have and would benefit from something like this if it was implemented.
lol, the history of blob crashes prooves that for a crash to be successful whoever is organizing it needs to know what hes doing and wont rely on some random formula that may or may not work.
May or may not work? Ok, you're challenging my math now, please prove your statement here that the formula may not work. Mathematically of course.

kris wrote:No. they wont, for the same reason that they don't fear suiciders even though its happened many times
Players don't fear suiciders? Sure, that's why there have been many, yourself included, that have sought to remove the ability of players to suicide from a variety of means. You can say you don't fear them, but removing the ability to act in a manner that is destructive to your faction shows a form of fear.


kris wrote:no it wont
Prove it please.
kris wrote:and since when did having a blob mean people just sit around?
kris wrote:The Heiho blob ... will not move ...

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Re: Anti-blob mechanic Splash damage

Postby kris » Thu 20 Sep, 2012 15:20

Ferdoc wrote: I'm asking you to PROVE your statement. Hence the request for evidence. And before you try to say "well you should disprove it" the burden is on your shoulders to prove your assertion that this idea helps suiciders only.
Actually you are the OP so its down to you to proove your idea not me.
May or may not work? Ok, you're challenging my math now, please prove your statement here that the formula may not work. Mathematically of course.
again, what are you going on about? Im talking about the outcome of a blobcrash, not a silly little formula.
Players don't fear suiciders? Sure, that's why there have been many, yourself included, that have sought to remove the ability of players to suicide from a variety of means. You can say you don't fear them, but removing the ability to act in a manner that is destructive to your faction shows a form of fear.
LOL what?

I stated that suiciders wont scare people off the blob. What the heck has that got to do with your comments above

As for your comments about the heiho blob not moving please stop taking things out of context


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