Guild Bank

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Ferdoc
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Guild: ZORAN is a GLOBAL DICTATOR!
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Guild Bank

Postby Ferdoc » Fri 31 Dec, 2010 20:04

Please understand this is the original post, without all of the modifications or additions that were suggested within the original thread. As such certain posters will notice the differences from what they remember. Please feel free to inform me of the changes that you remember or any significant differences. I do ask that you please note at the top of your post that you are talking about the prior thread so that anyone reading it will understand what you are talking about With that said, let the games begin!


So, now that I have everyone angry already. Settle down, take a deep breath, maybe grab a drink.... I'l wait.


Ready yet? No? Ok. I'll give you a little bit more time.





Back? Good, ok lets have some fun... except for those of you who won' read it. There isn't going to be a TL;DR put forward by me, so if you want you can click back now and view something else. For everyone else who is ready to read, enjoy! Oh yea, The headings are going to be in green to help people who want to know what the main topics are and where they are.


So what is a Guild Bank?
A Guild Bank, simply put, is a new kind of stat which will give benefits after you achieve certain ranks. The bonuses come in three flavors, TR Unique Increase, TR Distance Increase and Speed Increase. More in depth on those later. Anyone inside of the guild is able to see the total value for the Guild Bank, but not see anyone else's individual contribution aside from their own.

How does your Guild Bank stat increase?
Just like Technology and Fleet are added up for the respective levels for your guild, the Guild Bank will be the same. However the stat for the individual will not be visible to anyone other than that player nor will it be tracked and ranked like Econ, Technology, Fleet and Experience.

How does a player increase their Personal Bank Account?
Well you are allowed to put in 10% of your hourly income into your Personal Bank Account. Debris, Pillages and Plunders can not be added to your Personal Bank Account. You can not withdraw anything that you put into this stat.

So, how does it work?
Well your guild will combine all of the Personal Bank Accounts and that will generate the Guild Bank. Yea, simple enough. Now for those of you who fear that what you put in will stay with any guilds you leave, don't fret. Just like Technology and Fleet go with you, and your previous guild's appropriate stat decreases, your Personal Bank Account goes with you as well. Allowing you to leave without fear and enjoy being able to contribute to whatever guild you wish to assist.

What do you get for this?
An increase in the number of effective unique TR partners, an increase in the distance for trade and an increase to ship speed when traveling from base to base... within your guild only. Yep, that's right you get these bonuses if and only if you and the other person share the same tag. Seems annoying to some of you I bet, but guess what? I don't care. The idea is designed to help out the guild, not just the individual player.

How does the increase in the number of effective unique TR partners work?
Well, that's simple enough to explain. As your guild increases its Guild Bank value you unlock higher and higher bonuses. If people leave your guild, and as such your Guild Bank value decreases, you could lose some bonuses. Now for the first 20 levels. of this.

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1   TR Unique Player Bonus   
lvl   cost   bonus
1   15,261   2%
2   30,523   4%
3   61,046   6%
4   122,091   8%
5   244,183   10%
6   488,366   12%
7   976,732   14%
8   1,953,463   16%
9   3,906,927   18%
10   7,813,854   20%
11   15,627,707   22%
12   31,255,415   24%
13   62,510,830   26%
14   125,021,660   28%
15   250,043,319   30%
16   500,086,639   32%
17   1,000,173,277   34%
18   2,000,346,555   36%
19   4,000,693,110   38%
20   8,001,386,219   40%


So what does that percentage bonus do for you? It gets added on to the number of unique partners you have, but only affects it if the person is in the same guild. For example, you have 20 base, 5 TRs per base. For a total of 100 possible routes. Lets say all 100 are unique and all 100 are from guild members. You would just apply the percentage from the unique partner bonus as you would apply any other bonus.

100 * (1+ Bonus) = number of bonus trade partners

For simplicity's sake, lets say your guild has level 10, meaning a 20% bonus. You would end up having 20 bonus trade partners. (100 * (1+.2) = 100 * .2 = 20). Now lets say, using the 100 Unique routes and the same bonus of 20%, you only have 40 in guild unique partners. You would have only 8 bonus trade partners.

Ok, so how does that Trade Route Distance bonus work out?
Well again, just like Unique Trade Partners when your guild is able to have a Guild Bank value high enough it unlocks bonuses to the distance of your Trade Routes. Each tier increases the distance value of your in guild trades by 1 step. Each step is 200 distance units. So lets take a look at the table.

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2   TR distance increase   
lvl   cost   bonus
1   19,077   1 step
2   38,154   2 step
3   76,307   3 step
4   152,614   4 step
5   305,229   5 step
6   610,457   6 step
7   1,220,915   7 step
8   2,441,829   8 step
9   4,883,659   9 step
10   9,767,317   10 step
11   19,534,634   11 step
12   39,069,269   12 step
13   78,138,537   13 step
14   156,277,075   14 step
15   312,554,149   15 step
16   625,108,298   16 step
17   1,250,216,597   17 step
18   2,500,433,194   18 step
19   5,000,866,387   19 step
20   10,001,732,774   20 step


Ok, lets put out a few examples. Your guild has level 10 of this as well, that's 10 steps or 2,000 more distance added onto your in guild trade routes. That makes you smile a bit. Now, lets say you have 3 Trades with guild members, one at 200 distance, one at 5,000 distance and a final one at 3,400 distance. The trade routes become 2,200, 7,000 and 6,400 respectively. Now these trades do NOT have to be unique in order to get the bonus like the TR Unique Partner Bonus. This just requires the person to be inside of your guild.

This can increase the distance beyond the normal maximum possible within AE. The additional distance is a bonus when you pillage the TR, so while it does reward you it has some additional risk added in.

Do both the Unique Trade Partners and Distance Bonus stack?
Yes, I'll explain how all of the bonuses work after the last one, ok? Good.

How does the Speed Increase thing work?
Well you get a bonus on your speed when traveling from guild base to guild base. Sounds simple enough right? Well this bonus is applied AFTER tech and JGs are applied to the speed of the units, but before a logistics commander is applied. So here's the chart.

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3   Speed increase   
lvl   cost   bonus
1   41,969   1%
2   83,938   2%
3   167,876   3%
4   335,752   4%
5   671,503   5%
6   1,343,006   6%
7   2,686,012   7%
8   5,372,024   8%
9   10,744,049   9%
10   21,488,098   10%
11   42,976,196   11%
12   85,952,391   12%
13   171,904,782   13%
14   343,809,564   14%
15   687,619,128   15%
16   1,375,238,256   16%
17   2,750,476,513   17%
18   5,500,953,026   18%
19   11,001,906,051   19%
20   22,003,812,103   20%


So how does this really work out for speed? Well lets take a look at 3 units. DN, HC and CR at warp 23 on a level 6 JG (no commander). Again, lets say your guild has the level 10 bonus.

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Unit   Speed on JG   Bonus   Effective Speed
DN   30.1   10%   33.11
HC   45.15   10%   49.665
CR   60.2   10%   66.22



Ok, so how does all of this REALLY work?
Well your guild's Guild Bank value is compared to all of the lists and you get the highest bonuses for each category that meet or are below your Guild Bank value. So if your guild manages to pull in 350,000,000 as their Guild Bank value, they would be able to unlock and have automatically applied level 15 Unique Trade Partner, level 15 Distance Bonus AND level 14 Speed Bonus. All bonuses when 'unlocked' are automatically applied, no matter what, each higher level replaces the lower levels, however if you drop below certain point levels your bonuses could decrease one level or more. Confused? Yea, I think some of you might be, others might get it but want to see more. So, I'll give everyone another list to look at and get an idea of what's going on.

Ok, let me explain what the list is going to have. Its going to have 3 abbreviations. UPB, TRDI, and SI. UPB is Unique Player Bonus. TRDI is Trade Route Distance Increase. SI is Speed Increase. After each abbreviation is a number, that number is the level within that grouping. That's all in Column 1. In Column 2 you'll see the cost starting at the lowest and increasing to the highest. In the third column you'll see the bonus you achieve that is appropriate to what is in the first column. So without further adieu, here is the bonus list.

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lvl   cost   bonus
UPB1   15,261   2%
TRDI1   19,077   1 step
UPB2   30,523   4%
TRDI2   38,154   2 step
SI1   41,969   1%
UPB3   61,046   6%
TRDI3   76,307   3 step
SI2   83,938   2%
UPB4   122,091   8%
TRDI4   152,614   4 step
SI3   167,876   3%
UPB5   244,183   10%
TRDI5   305,229   5 step
SI4   335,752   4%
UPB6   488,366   12%
TRDI6   610,457   6 step
SI5   671,503   5%
UPB7   976,732   14%
TRDI7   1,220,915   7 step
SI6   1,343,006   6%
UPB8   1,953,463   16%
TRDI8   2,441,829   8 step
SI7   2,686,012   7%
UPB9   3,906,927   18%
TRDI9   4,883,659   9 step
SI8   5,372,024   8%
UPB10   7,813,854   20%
TRDI10   9,767,317   10 step
SI9   10,744,049   9%
UPB11   15,627,707   22%
TRDI11   19,534,634   11 step
SI10   21,488,098   10%
UPB12   31,255,415   24%
TRDI12   39,069,269   12 step
SI11   42,976,196   11%
UPB13   62,510,830   26%
TRDI13   78,138,537   13 step
SI12   85,952,391   12%
UPB14   125,021,660   28%
TRDI14   156,277,075   14 step
SI13   171,904,782   13%
UPB15   250,043,319   30%
TRDI15   312,554,149   15 step
SI14   343,809,564   14%
UPB16   500,086,639   32%
TRDI16   625,108,298   16 step
SI15   687,619,128   15%
UPB17   1,000,173,277   34%
TRDI17   1,250,216,597   17 step
SI16   1,375,238,256   16%
UPB18   2,000,346,555   36%
TRDI18   2,500,433,194   18 step
SI17   2,750,476,513   17%
UPB19   4,000,693,110   38%
TRDI19   5,000,866,387   19 step
SI18   5,500,953,026   18%
UPB20   8,001,386,219   40%
TRDI20   10,001,732,774   20 step
SI19   11,001,906,051   19%
SI20   22,003,812,103   20%


So as you can see when you achieve a higher Guild Bank value you unlock more bonuses across the board. You do NOT have to spend anything in order to get the bonuses. You just achieve them as you accumulate Guild Banks Value. So there is no need to choose from TR Distance Increase, Increase to Unique Partners or Speed Increase.


Data Time - below is just a lay down of the information that I've pulled in order to detail out the FR. Read the below and understand that the data will mostly speak for itself.

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Income using markers      
   Generic Guild - XYZ   
Income up to   total   10%
6 months   1,346,104,524   134,610,452
12 months   2,099,100,400   209,910,040
24 months   5,158,137,952   515,813,795
48 months   11,400,122,672   1,140,012,267
Total   20,003,465,548   2,000,346,555


I used the above as the marker for the soft cap for the top ranked guilds. To come to the above I used the below info sets as baseline.

Each Code box will be setup to display the guild ranks for level sorting according to economy from the ranking page. The first set of numbers is full econ per hour, then per day, then per year, then over 4 years. The second set is as if all members in the guild were to donate the full 10% of their economy all the time.

Code: Select all

Rank   1         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   1,086,449   26,074,776   9,517,293,240   38,069,172,960
Beta   1,732,956   41,590,944   15,180,694,560   60,722,778,240
Ceti   1,004,805   24,115,320   8,802,091,800   35,208,367,200
Delta   1,189,231   28,541,544   10,417,663,560   41,670,654,240
Epsilon   981,295   23,551,080   8,596,144,200   34,384,576,800
Fenix   1,062,531   25,500,744   9,307,771,560   37,231,086,240
Gamma   469,107   11,258,568   4,109,377,320   16,437,509,280
Helion   406,898   9,765,552   3,564,426,480   14,257,705,920
            
Full 10% for each guild            
            
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   108,645   2,607,478   951,729,324   3,806,917,296
Beta   173,296   4,159,094   1,518,069,456   6,072,277,824
Ceti   100,481   2,411,532   880,209,180   3,520,836,720
Delta   118,923   2,854,154   1,041,766,356   4,167,065,424
Epsilon   98,130   2,355,108   859,614,420   3,438,457,680
Fenix   106,253   2,550,074   930,777,156   3,723,108,624
Gamma   46,911   1,125,857   410,937,732   1,643,750,928
Helion   40,690   976,555   356,442,648   1,425,770,592


Code: Select all

Rank   2         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   679,522   16,308,528   5,952,612,720   23,810,450,880
Beta   1,243,958   29,854,992   10,897,072,080   43,588,288,320
Ceti   972,603   23,342,472   8,520,002,280   34,080,009,120
Delta   830,186   19,924,464   7,272,429,360   29,089,717,440
Epsilon   894,896   21,477,504   7,839,288,960   31,357,155,840
Fenix   980,310   23,527,440   8,587,515,600   34,350,062,400
Gamma   449,811   10,795,464   3,940,344,360   15,761,377,440
Helion   356,029   8,544,696   3,118,814,040   12,475,256,160
            
Full 10% for each guild            

   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   67,952   1,630,853   595,261,272   2,381,045,088
Beta   124,396   2,985,499   1,089,707,208   4,358,828,832
Ceti   97,260   2,334,247   852,000,228   3,408,000,912
Delta   83,019   1,992,446   727,242,936   2,908,971,744
Epsilon   89,490   2,147,750   783,928,896   3,135,715,584
Fenix   98,031   2,352,744   858,751,560   3,435,006,240
Gamma   44,981   1,079,546   394,034,436   1,576,137,744
Helion   35,603   854,470   311,881,404   1,247,525,616


Code: Select all

Rank   3         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   635,387   15,249,288   5,565,990,120   22,263,960,480
Beta   671,490   16,115,760   5,882,252,400   23,529,009,600
Ceti   930,514   22,332,336   8,151,302,640   32,605,210,560
Delta   815,047   19,561,128   7,139,811,720   28,559,246,880
Epsilon   847,831   20,347,944   7,426,999,560   29,707,998,240
Fenix   613,520   14,724,480   5,374,435,200   21,497,740,800
Gamma   418,219   10,037,256   3,663,598,440   14,654,393,760
Helion   296,699   7,120,776   2,599,083,240   10,396,332,960
            
Full 10% for each guild            
            
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   63,539   1,524,929   556,599,012   2,226,396,048
Beta   67,149   1,611,576   588,225,240   2,352,900,960
Ceti   93,051   2,233,234   815,130,264   3,260,521,056
Delta   81,505   1,956,113   713,981,172   2,855,924,688
Epsilon   84,783   2,034,794   742,699,956   2,970,799,824
Fenix   61,352   1,472,448   537,443,520   2,149,774,080
Gamma   41,822   1,003,726   366,359,844   1,465,439,376
Helion   29,670   712,078   259,908,324   1,039,633,296


Code: Select all

Rank   4         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   602,934   14,470,416   5,281,701,840   21,126,807,360
Beta   655,902   15,741,648   5,745,701,520   22,982,806,080
Ceti   913,177   21,916,248   7,999,430,520   31,997,722,080
Delta   787,393   18,897,432   6,897,562,680   27,590,250,720
Epsilon   789,539   18,948,936   6,916,361,640   27,665,446,560
Fenix   575,176   13,804,224   5,038,541,760   20,154,167,040
Gamma   395,222   9,485,328   3,462,144,720   13,848,578,880
Helion   194,990   4,679,760   1,708,112,400   6,832,449,600
            
Full 10% for each guild            

   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   60,293   1,447,042   528,170,184   2,112,680,736
Beta   65,590   1,574,165   574,570,152   2,298,280,608
Ceti   91,318   2,191,625   799,943,052   3,199,772,208
Delta   78,739   1,889,743   689,756,268   2,759,025,072
Epsilon   78,954   1,894,894   691,636,164   2,766,544,656
Fenix   57,518   1,380,422   503,854,176   2,015,416,704
Gamma   39,522   948,533   346,214,472   1,384,857,888
Helion   19,499   467,976   170,811,240   683,244,960


Code: Select all

Rank   5         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   599,570   14,389,680   5,252,233,200   21,008,932,800
Beta   651,994   15,647,856   5,711,467,440   22,845,869,760
Ceti   776,420   18,634,080   6,801,439,200   27,205,756,800
Delta   763,178   18,316,272   6,685,439,280   26,741,757,120
Epsilon   576,501   13,836,024   5,050,148,760   20,200,595,040
Fenix   508,041   12,192,984   4,450,439,160   17,801,756,640
Gamma   321,267   7,710,408   2,814,298,920   11,257,195,680
Helion   189,199   4,540,776   1,657,383,240   6,629,532,960
            
Full 10% for each guild            

   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   59,957   1,438,968   525,223,320   2,100,893,280
Beta   65,199   1,564,786   571,146,744   2,284,586,976
Ceti   77,642   1,863,408   680,143,920   2,720,575,680
Delta   76,318   1,831,627   668,543,928   2,674,175,712
Epsilon   57,650   1,383,602   505,014,876   2,020,059,504
Fenix   50,804   1,219,298   445,043,916   1,780,175,664
Gamma   32,127   771,041   281,429,892   1,125,719,568
Helion   18,920   454,078   165,738,324   662,953,296


Code: Select all

Rank   6         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   563,648   13,527,552   4,937,556,480   19,750,225,920
Beta   626,671   15,040,104   5,489,637,960   21,958,551,840
Ceti   724,212   17,381,088   6,344,097,120   25,376,388,480
Delta   696,396   16,713,504   6,100,428,960   24,401,715,840
Epsilon   549,576   13,189,824   4,814,285,760   19,257,143,040
Fenix   467,067   11,209,608   4,091,506,920   16,366,027,680
Gamma   302,630   7,263,120   2,651,038,800   10,604,155,200
Helion   175,095   4,202,280   1,533,832,200   6,135,328,800
            
Full 10% for each guild            

   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   56,365   1,352,755   493,755,648   1,975,022,592
Beta   62,667   1,504,010   548,963,796   2,195,855,184
Ceti   72,421   1,738,109   634,409,712   2,537,638,848
Delta   69,640   1,671,350   610,042,896   2,440,171,584
Epsilon   54,958   1,318,982   481,428,576   1,925,714,304
Fenix   46,707   1,120,961   409,150,692   1,636,602,768
Gamma   30,263   726,312   265,103,880   1,060,415,520
Helion   17,510   420,228   153,383,220   613,532,880


Code: Select all

Rank   7         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   553,004   13,272,096   4,844,315,040   19,377,260,160
Beta   584,773   14,034,552   5,122,611,480   20,490,445,920
Ceti   722,564   17,341,536   6,329,660,640   25,318,642,560
Delta   566,662   13,599,888   4,963,959,120   19,855,836,480
Epsilon   499,822   11,995,728   4,378,440,720   17,513,762,880
Fenix   429,821   10,315,704   3,765,231,960   15,060,927,840
Gamma   302,176   7,252,224   2,647,061,760   10,588,247,040
Helion   174,501   4,188,024   1,528,628,760   6,114,515,040
            
Full 10% for each guild            

   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   55,300   1,327,210   484,431,504   1,937,726,016
Beta   58,477   1,403,455   512,261,148   2,049,044,592
Ceti   72,256   1,734,154   632,966,064   2,531,864,256
Delta   56,666   1,359,989   496,395,912   1,985,583,648
Epsilon   49,982   1,199,573   437,844,072   1,751,376,288
Fenix   42,982   1,031,570   376,523,196   1,506,092,784
Gamma   30,218   725,222   264,706,176   1,058,824,704
Helion   17,450   418,802   152,862,876   611,451,504


Code: Select all

Rank   8         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   544,366   13,064,784   4,768,646,160   19,074,584,640
Beta   557,392   13,377,408   4,882,753,920   19,531,015,680
Ceti   501,521   12,036,504   4,393,323,960   17,573,295,840
Delta   565,829   13,579,896   4,956,662,040   19,826,648,160
Epsilon   442,702   10,624,848   3,878,069,520   15,512,278,080
Fenix   422,725   10,145,400   3,703,071,000   14,812,284,000
Gamma   266,484   6,395,616   2,334,399,840   9,337,599,360
Helion   167,316   4,015,584   1,465,688,160   5,862,752,640
            
Full 10% for each guild            

   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   54,437   1,306,478   476,864,616   1,907,458,464
Beta   55,739   1,337,741   488,275,392   1,953,101,568
Ceti   50,152   1,203,650   439,332,396   1,757,329,584
Delta   56,583   1,357,990   495,666,204   1,982,664,816
Epsilon   44,270   1,062,485   387,806,952   1,551,227,808
Fenix   42,273   1,014,540   370,307,100   1,481,228,400
Gamma   26,648   639,562   233,439,984   933,759,936
Helion   16,732   401,558   146,568,816   586,275,264


Code: Select all

Rank   9         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   492,993   11,831,832   4,318,618,680   17,274,474,720
Beta   505,510   12,132,240   4,428,267,600   17,713,070,400
Ceti   500,195   12,004,680   4,381,708,200   17,526,832,800
Delta   534,464   12,827,136   4,681,904,640   18,727,618,560
Epsilon   422,067   10,129,608   3,697,306,920   14,789,227,680
Fenix   402,286   9,654,864   3,524,025,360   14,096,101,440
Gamma   259,964   6,239,136   2,277,284,640   9,109,138,560
Helion   134,597   3,230,328   1,179,069,720   4,716,278,880
            
Full 10% for each guild            

   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   49,299   1,183,183   431,861,868   1,727,447,472
Beta   50,551   1,213,224   442,826,760   1,771,307,040
Ceti   50,020   1,200,468   438,170,820   1,752,683,280
Delta   53,446   1,282,714   468,190,464   1,872,761,856
Epsilon   42,207   1,012,961   369,730,692   1,478,922,768
Fenix   40,229   965,486   352,402,536   1,409,610,144
Gamma   25,996   623,914   227,728,464   910,913,856
Helion   13,460   323,033   117,906,972   471,627,888


Code: Select all

Rank   10         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   463,206   11,116,944   4,057,684,560   16,230,738,240
Beta   497,823   11,947,752   4,360,929,480   17,443,717,920
Ceti   459,986   11,039,664   4,029,477,360   16,117,909,440
Delta   510,475   12,251,400   4,471,761,000   17,887,044,000
Epsilon   401,974   9,647,376   3,521,292,240   14,085,168,960
Fenix   364,957   8,758,968   3,197,023,320   12,788,093,280
Gamma   253,175   6,076,200   2,217,813,000   8,871,252,000
Helion   129,058   3,097,392   1,130,548,080   4,522,192,320
            
Full 10% for each guild            

   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   46,321   1,111,694   405,768,456   1,623,073,824
Beta   49,782   1,194,775   436,092,948   1,744,371,792
Ceti   45,999   1,103,966   402,947,736   1,611,790,944
Delta   51,048   1,225,140   447,176,100   1,788,704,400
Epsilon   40,197   964,738   352,129,224   1,408,516,896
Fenix   36,496   875,897   319,702,332   1,278,809,328
Gamma   25,318   607,620   221,781,300   887,125,200
Helion   12,906   309,739   113,054,808   452,219,232


Code: Select all

Rank   11         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   445,542   10,693,008   3,902,947,920   15,611,791,680
Beta   441,566   10,597,584   3,868,118,160   15,472,472,640
Ceti   364,821   8,755,704   3,195,831,960   12,783,327,840
Delta   363,176   8,716,224   3,181,421,760   12,725,687,040
Epsilon   353,654   8,487,696   3,098,009,040   12,392,036,160
Fenix   330,976   7,943,424   2,899,349,760   11,597,399,040
Gamma   250,874   6,020,976   2,197,656,240   8,790,624,960
Helion   107,533   2,580,792   941,989,080   3,767,956,320
            
Full 10% for each guild            

   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   44,554   1,069,301   390,294,792   1,561,179,168
Beta   44,157   1,059,758   386,811,816   1,547,247,264
Ceti   36,482   875,570   319,583,196   1,278,332,784
Delta   36,318   871,622   318,142,176   1,272,568,704
Epsilon   35,365   848,770   309,800,904   1,239,203,616
Fenix   33,098   794,342   289,934,976   1,159,739,904
Gamma   25,087   602,098   219,765,624   879,062,496
Helion   10,753   258,079   94,198,908   376,795,632


Code: Select all

Rank   12         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   437,057   10,489,368   3,828,619,320   15,314,477,280
Beta   438,358   10,520,592   3,840,016,080   15,360,064,320
Ceti   349,165   8,379,960   3,058,685,400   12,234,741,600
Delta   356,712   8,561,088   3,124,797,120   12,499,188,480
Epsilon   311,655   7,479,720   2,730,097,800   10,920,391,200
Fenix   270,026   6,480,624   2,365,427,760   9,461,711,040
Gamma   250,587   6,014,088   2,195,142,120   8,780,568,480
Helion   106,314   2,551,536   931,310,640   3,725,242,560
            
Full 10% for each guild            

   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   43,706   1,048,937   382,861,932   1,531,447,728
Beta   43,836   1,052,059   384,001,608   1,536,006,432
Ceti   34,917   837,996   305,868,540   1,223,474,160
Delta   35,671   856,109   312,479,712   1,249,918,848
Epsilon   31,166   747,972   273,009,780   1,092,039,120
Fenix   27,003   648,062   236,542,776   946,171,104
Gamma   25,059   601,409   219,514,212   878,056,848
Helion   10,631   255,154   93,131,064   372,524,256



Code: Select all

Rank   13         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   425,815   10,219,560   3,730,139,400   14,920,557,600
Beta   400,610   9,614,640   3,509,343,600   14,037,374,400
Ceti   336,475   8,075,400   2,947,521,000   11,790,084,000
Delta   293,705   7,048,920   2,572,855,800   10,291,423,200
Epsilon   243,630   5,847,120   2,134,198,800   8,536,795,200
Fenix   267,453   6,418,872   2,342,888,280   9,371,553,120
Gamma   248,433   5,962,392   2,176,273,080   8,705,092,320
Helion   102,687   2,464,488   899,538,120   3,598,152,480
            
Full 10% for each guild            

   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   42,582   1,021,956   373,013,940   1,492,055,760
Beta   40,061   961,464   350,934,360   1,403,737,440
Ceti   33,648   807,540   294,752,100   1,179,008,400
Delta   29,371   704,892   257,285,580   1,029,142,320
Epsilon   24,363   584,712   213,419,880   853,679,520
Fenix   26,745   641,887   234,288,828   937,155,312
Gamma   24,843   596,239   217,627,308   870,509,232
Helion   10,269   246,449   89,953,812   359,815,248


Code: Select all

Rank   14         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   417,664   10,023,936   3,658,736,640   14,634,946,560
Beta   385,571   9,253,704   3,377,601,960   13,510,407,840
Ceti   285,413   6,849,912   2,500,217,880   10,000,871,520
Delta   284,703   6,832,872   2,493,998,280   9,975,993,120
Epsilon   219,603   5,270,472   1,923,722,280   7,694,889,120
Fenix   262,098   6,290,352   2,295,978,480   9,183,913,920
Gamma   216,035   5,184,840   1,892,466,600   7,569,866,400
Helion   100,108   2,402,592   876,946,080   3,507,784,320
            
Full 10% for each guild            

   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   41,766   1,002,394   365,873,664   1,463,494,656
Beta   38,557   925,370   337,760,196   1,351,040,784
Ceti   28,541   684,991   250,021,788   1,000,087,152
Delta   28,470   683,287   249,399,828   997,599,312
Epsilon   21,960   527,047   192,372,228   769,488,912
Fenix   26,210   629,035   229,597,848   918,391,392
Gamma   21,604   518,484   189,246,660   756,986,640
Helion   10,011   240,259   87,694,608   350,778,432


Code: Select all

Rank   15         
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   415,459   9,971,016   3,639,420,840   14,557,683,360
Beta   365,805   8,779,320   3,204,451,800   12,817,807,200
Ceti   278,067   6,673,608   2,435,866,920   9,743,467,680
Delta   275,271   6,606,504   2,411,373,960   9,645,495,840
Epsilon   201,836   4,844,064   1,768,083,360   7,072,333,440
Fenix   231,713   5,561,112   2,029,805,880   8,119,223,520
Gamma   205,963   4,943,112   1,804,235,880   7,216,943,520
Helion   90,527   2,172,648   793,016,520   3,172,066,080
            
Full 10% for each guild            

   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   41,546   997,102   363,942,084   1,455,768,336
Beta   36,581   877,932   320,445,180   1,281,780,720
Ceti   27,807   667,361   243,586,692   974,346,768
Delta   27,527   660,650   241,137,396   964,549,584
Epsilon   20,184   484,406   176,808,336   707,233,344
Fenix   23,171   556,111   202,980,588   811,922,352
Gamma   20,596   494,311   180,423,588   721,694,352
Helion   9,053   217,265   79,301,652   317,206,608


With all of the above I was able to pull out the following. These are the averages for the ranks across the servers, all rank 1s are averaged, all rank 2s are averaged etc.

Code: Select all

Averages      full econ      
Ranked   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
1   991,659   23,799,816   8,686,932,840   34,747,731,360
2   800,914   19,221,945   7,016,009,925   28,064,039,700
3   653,588   15,686,121   5,725,434,165   22,901,736,660
4   614,292   14,742,999   5,381,194,635   21,524,778,540
5   548,271   13,158,510   4,802,856,150   19,211,424,600
6   513,162   12,315,885   4,495,298,025   17,981,192,100
7   479,165   11,499,969   4,197,488,685   16,789,954,740
8   433,542   10,405,005   3,797,826,825   15,191,307,300
9   406,510   9,756,228   3,561,023,220   14,244,092,880
10   385,082   9,241,962   3,373,316,130   13,493,264,520
11   332,268   7,974,426   2,910,665,490   11,642,661,960
12   314,984   7,559,622   2,759,262,030   11,037,048,120
13   289,851   6,956,424   2,539,094,760   10,156,379,040
14   271,399   6,513,585   2,377,458,525   9,509,834,100
15   258,080   6,193,923   2,260,781,895   9,043,127,580
            
Averages      10%      
Ranked   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
1   99,166   2,379,982   868,693,284   3,474,773,136
2   80,091   1,922,195   701,600,993   2,806,403,970
3   65,359   1,568,612   572,543,417   2,290,173,666
4   61,429   1,474,300   538,119,464   2,152,477,854
5   54,827   1,315,851   480,285,615   1,921,142,460
6   51,316   1,231,589   449,529,803   1,798,119,210
7   47,917   1,149,997   419,748,869   1,678,995,474
8   43,354   1,040,501   379,782,683   1,519,130,730
9   40,651   975,623   356,102,322   1,424,409,288
10   38,508   924,196   337,331,613   1,349,326,452
11   33,227   797,443   291,066,549   1,164,266,196
12   31,498   755,962   275,926,203   1,103,704,812
13   28,985   695,642   253,909,476   1,015,637,904
14   27,140   651,359   237,745,853   950,983,410
15   25,808   619,392   226,078,190   904,312,758



Then after some examination I decided to take the ranks INSIDE of the servers, alpha in one average, all beta in one average etc. And produced the following.

Code: Select all

Averages per server         Total   
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   557,508   13,380,186   4,883,767,744   19,535,070,976
Beta   650,692   15,616,606   5,700,061,336   22,800,245,344
Ceti   607,996   14,591,901   5,326,043,792   21,304,175,168
Delta   588,829   14,131,885   5,158,137,952   20,632,551,808
Epsilon   515,772   12,378,530   4,518,163,304   18,072,653,216
Fenix   479,247   11,501,920   4,198,200,800   16,792,803,200
Gamma   307,330   7,375,915   2,692,209,048   10,768,836,192
Helion   182,103   4,370,482   1,595,225,784   6,380,903,136
            
Averages per server         10%   
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Alpha   55,751   1,338,019   488,376,774   1,953,507,098
Beta   65,069   1,561,661   570,006,134   2,280,024,534
Ceti   60,800   1,459,190   532,604,379   2,130,417,517
Delta   58,883   1,413,188   515,813,795   2,063,255,181
Epsilon   51,577   1,237,853   451,816,330   1,807,265,322
Fenix   47,925   1,150,192   419,820,080   1,679,280,320
Gamma   30,733   737,592   269,220,905   1,076,883,619
Helion   18,210   437,048   159,522,578   638,090,314



From there I took certain time points of server ages and came with the following 4 servers to use as predictive time points, based on econ growth and server existance.

Code: Select all

Averages per server         Total   
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Beta   650,692   15,616,606   5,700,061,336   22,800,245,344   4 year marker
Delta   588,829   14,131,885   5,158,137,952   20,632,551,808   2 year marker
Fenix   479,247   11,501,920   4,198,200,800   16,792,803,200   1 year marker
Gamma   307,330   7,375,915   2,692,209,048   10,768,836,192   6 month marker

Averages per server         10%   
   per hour   per day   per year   over 4 years
Beta   65,069   1,561,661   570,006,134   2,280,024,534   4 year marker
Delta   58,883   1,413,188   515,813,795   2,063,255,181   2 year marker
Fenix   47,925   1,150,192   419,820,080   1,679,280,320   1 year marker
Gamma   30,733   737,592   269,220,905   1,076,883,619   6 month marker


The above is what I used to create the generic guild example I listed before. That generic guild was used to set the soft cap you could achieve within 4 years of saving a max of 10%.

To further provide information of how the data was pulled, below are the guilds that I used, seperated out from server to server starting with the oldest (alpha) and proceeding to the youngest (Helion)

Alpha

Code: Select all

Rank   Guild   Name   Economy   Members   avg. per member
1   [BORG]    Of_BORG   1,086,449   124   8,762
2   [9th]    9th Raven Corps   679,522   96   7,078
3   [-Min-]    Minbari Federation   635,387   79   8,043
4   [CoRM]    Confederation of the Red Moon   602,934   67   8,999
5   [13th]    13th Wolf Guards   599,570   58   10,337
6   [NPO]    New Planetary Order   563,648   84   6,710
7   [42AO]    Arkhe Theia   553,004   102   5,422
8   [RL]    Rainbow Llamas   544,366   89   6,116
9   [X.Org]    X. Organization   492,993   73   6,753
10   [AzTEC]    AzTEC   463,206   44   10,527
11   [=A=]    Arachnid Battalion   445,542   53   8,406
12   [SIR]    Sovereign Imperial Republic   437,057   71   6,156
13   [CLS]    Celestial Guardians   425,815   55   7,742
14   [RFA]    The Realm of Free Astros   417,664   81   5,156
15   [¤KL¤]    Kayoss Legions   415,459   76   5,467


Beta

Code: Select all

Rank   Guild   Name   Economy   Members   avg. per member
1   [AA]    ASTROHOLICS ANONYMOUS   1,732,956   219   7,913
2   [CHAOS]    Chaos   1,243,958   184   6,761
3   [-PM-]    Project Meteor   671,490   72   9,326
4   [BLOOD]    BLOOD   655,902   96   6,832
5   [★MI5★]    SPOOKS   651,994   127   5,134
6   [~BG~]    The Brotherhood of Guardians   626,671   113   5,546
7   [DERP]    How does I form babby?   584,773   88   6,645
8   [FAIL]    Failure is an airborne contaminant   557,392   56   9,953
9   [GOON]    Dude, Where Is My Excel Sheet   505,510   68   7,434
10   [LoT]    Legions of the Twilight   497,823   92   5,411
11   [PT☩SS]    SS Cruz de Cristo ☩   441,566   57   7,747
12   [S³D]    We Love Furries   438,358   78   5,620
13   [¤S¤]    Serenity Warriors   400,610   51   7,855
14   [{CM}]    The Crimson Mercenaries   385,571   106   3,637
15   [◣_◢]    Wicked   365,805   51   7,173


Ceti

Code: Select all

Rank   Guild   Name   Economy   Members   avg. per member
1   [13th]    13th Wolf Guards   1,004,805   177   5,677
2   [ÐεvιL]    Devils Brigade   972,603   133   7,313
3   [SMURF]    SMURFS   930,514   120   7,754
4   [HeiHo]    The Art Of War   913,177   159   5,743
5   [DWH]    Derbz with Honourz   776,420   87   8,924
6   [NFFY]    No Fun For You   724,212   93   7,787
7   [Dojo]    The Warriors Academy   722,564   134   5,392
8   [Om~Lo]    Oompa-Loompa   501,521   85   5,900
9   [SSJ]    Serious Space Jokes   500,195   56   8,932
10   [*ASG*]    Asgards   459,986   98   4,694
11   [eX]    Exodus   364,821   55   6,633
12   [SETDT]    The Dark Templars and Settlers   349,165   50   6,983
13   [WRYS]    We Recycling Your Ships   336,475   52   6,471
14   [BSMF]    Brock Samsons Murder Face   285,413   45   6,343
15   [^.^]    Kittens of War !   278,067   64   4,345


Delta

Code: Select all

Rank   Guild   Name   Economy   Members   avg. per member
1   [TAG]    You Are It!   1,189,231   196   6,068
2   [ÐεvιL]    Devils Brigade   830,186   133   6,242
3   [WMD]    Weapons of Mass Destruction   815,047   101   8,070
4   [GRITS]    Ghost Riders in the Sky   787,393   119   6,617
5   [FLEET]    FLEET   763,178   109   7,002
6   [SWARM]    The Swarm of Chaos   696,396   120   5,803
7   [AYAYA]    Internet Supercrusaders   566,662   68   8,333
8   [NeM]    Unforgiven Nemesis   565,829   110   5,144
9   [-=Z=-]    Zephyr   534,464   63   8,484
10   [CFF]    Canisius Fusion Federation   510,475   86   5,936
11   [_U_]    Underdark   363,176   50   7,264
12   [GN]    The Grey Knights   356,712   101   3,532
13   [LSD]    Loonatics in Space with Debris   293,705   47   6,249
14   [GOMN]    Get off my nuts   284,703   33   8,627
15   [FAN]    Federation of Armed Nations   275,271   54   5,098


Epsilon

Code: Select all

Rank   Guild   Name   Economy   Members   avg. per member
1   [Fate]    Vacation Mode ftw   981,295   166   5,911
2   [UKoE]    United Knights of Epsilon   894,896   181   4,944
3   [SiN]    Original Sin   847,831   112   7,570
4   [DMTNT]    Ghostship   789,539   126   6,266
5   [3SUM]    3 Seconds Until Mayhem   576,501   92   6,266
6   [LAAN]    The Landsraad   549,576   101   5,441
7   [Ashes]    Burn it all.   499,822   73   6,847
8   [GOON]    Knights in service of Veni Vidi Vici   442,702   62   7,140
9   [FTW]    Farm To Win   422,067   59   7,154
10   [ANTI]    Anti-   401,974   90   4,466
11   [SWAG]    Stop Whining its A Game   353,654   67   5,278
12   [MOB]    The Mafia   311,655   52   5,993
13   [7E²]    The Empire of Liberty   243,630   63   3,867
14   [UCORP]    United Knights Academy of Epsilon   219,603   79   2,780
15   [STOP]    Hammertime   201,836   40   5,046


Fenix

Code: Select all

Rank   Guild   Name   Economy   Members   avg. per member
1   [TE]    Total Eclipse   1,062,531   222   4,786
2   [MIT]    Made in Taiwan   980,310   167   5,870
3   [DMTNT]    Swashbucklers   613,520   204   3,007
4   [~JR~]    Jolly Roger   575,176   121   4,754
5   [EAA]    EVIL AXIS ALLIANCE   508,041   217   2,341
6   [Fate]    Five Across the Eye   467,067   99   4,718
7   [.:§:.]    Dark Squadron   429,821   154   2,791
8   [!!!!!]    We Never Sleep   422,725   85   4,973
9   [DiBz]    On Your Derbz   402,286   68   5,916
10   [FYAD]    Space Camp   364,957   80   4,562
11   [-SCS-]    Skull and Crossbones Society   330,976   125   2,648
12   [NøiSe]    We iz in teh Background   270,026   49   5,511
13   [AE]    Adult Entertainment   267,453   45   5,943
14   [RAVE]    Random Acts of Violence Everywhere   262,098   47   5,577
15   [NiNJA]    NINJA reborn   231,713   61   3,799


Gamma

Code: Select all

Rank   Guild   Name   Economy   Members   avg. per member
1   [=?=]    Enigma   469,107   87   5,392
2   [WL]    WaR LegenD   449,811   86   5,230
3   [Oy]    Miekkas Marauders   418,219   182   2,298
4   [HERØ]    LØRDS ØF WAR   395,222   82   4,820
5   [RAGE]    Nerd Rage at its Best   321,267   88   3,651
6   [TEARS]    WL Fuels Our Spaceboats   302,630   76   3,982
7   [¢hAØs]    Organised Chaos   302,176   98   3,083
8   [PUB]    Party at Ur Blob   266,484   79   3,373
9   [GLAM]    BulletProof Ponies   259,964   57   4,561
10   [STEEL]    Steel Alliance   253,175   97   2,610
11   [UFP]    United Federation of Planets   250,874   110   2,281
12   [(-o-)]    PoKéMoN   250,587   58   4,320
13   [BEAR]    .....attacks golfers... true story!   248,433   62   4,007
14   [CC]    Cutthroat Commanders   216,035   124   1,742
15   [=¿=]    Riddle   205,963   56   3,678


Helion

Code: Select all

Rank   Guild   Name   Economy   Members   avg. per member
1   [MD]    Moral Decay   406,898   162   2,512
2   [stx]    Stickmen *o|-(   356,029   124   2,871
3   [187]    Gangstas in Space   296,699   120   2,472
4   [H-IV]    »Fjórir«   194,990   77   2,532
5   [5150]    Insane Space Pilots   189,199   72   2,628
6   [~DD~]    Death Dealers   175,095   95   1,843
7   [VIVA]    La Revolución   174,501   95   1,837
8   [SPORK]    We Do It All   167,316   103   1,624
9   [=I=]    Inquisition   134,597   165   816
10   [RD]    Reservoir Dogs   129,058   44   2,933
11   [CMFs]    Cool Mother Fighters   107,533   77   1,397
12   [Pub-E]    Pubbies R Us   106,314   74   1,437
13   [~LAG~]    The Server will close in 32 seconds   102,687   95   1,081
14   [BASES]    Where are yours   100,108   73   1,371
15   [~DDD~]    Death Dealer Disciples   90,527   98   924


The server times were not saved at the time of the snapshot for data.




As promised my 10,000th post was a special one, it was somethign quite rare. A Feature Request from me. I hope you have enjoyed reading this FR as much a I had creating it. Please feel free to say as little or as much as you want in regards to this FR.


Edit - Any chages done to the above will be listed in blue.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Hellion » Sat 01 Jan, 2011 01:15

Its essentially a econ boost for the sake of an econ boost. Its very similar to the econ techs that are usually shot down viciously except on a guild level. If we were ever to incorporate a guild bank id really prefer it to be in the direction of guild bonuses that matter to the guild more such as fleet bonuses, speed bonuses, defensive bonuses, etc. If you want to give people the ability to boost their overall econ I think it should be part of the choices for the guild bank but with the other options available or simply to leave it as a tech that can be researched instead because essentially its really the same thing just requires more people to contribute to achieve a higher payoff.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Winchester » Sat 01 Jan, 2011 10:54

Hellion, the Guild Bank isn't a standalone idea. I'm assuming that the econ boosts are meant to provide a bonus to the player even before the guild gets going on projects, so that people will increase their donation amount at the beginning of the feature launch/new servers/etc. Remember, it will take time to build up a sum in the GB, which means that some players will balk, thus delaying the ability to do things with the GB. This is foundational for more of Ferdoc's ideas - some of which have been posted already - and as such shouldn't be judged by its standalone worth. It's like judging spaceports before they added trade routes.

You talked about guild bonuses and whatnot, such as involving fleet; well, all of that comes later. But in order to get guild bonuses in a reasonable manner, you need funds that a guild can use. That's what this is. You remember how people crapped themselves over my Retrofits thread, right? Saying that it was too much all at once? Well, Ferdoc's avoiding that issue by proposing each part in turn. Imagine if he had posted this along with five other threads of equal length, all in one thread. No one would even read it.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Hellion » Sat 01 Jan, 2011 15:38

Ribbentrop wrote:Hellion, the Guild Bank isn't a standalone idea. I'm assuming that the econ boosts are meant to provide a bonus to the player even before the guild gets going on projects, so that people will increase their donation amount at the beginning of the feature launch/new servers/etc. Remember, it will take time to build up a sum in the GB, which means that some players will balk, thus delaying the ability to do things with the GB. This is foundational for more of Ferdoc's ideas - some of which have been posted already - and as such shouldn't be judged by its standalone worth. It's like judging spaceports before they added trade routes.

You talked about guild bonuses and whatnot, such as involving fleet; well, all of that comes later. But in order to get guild bonuses in a reasonable manner, you need funds that a guild can use. That's what this is. You remember how people crapped themselves over my Retrofits thread, right? Saying that it was too much all at once? Well, Ferdoc's avoiding that issue by proposing each part in turn. Imagine if he had posted this along with five other threads of equal length, all in one thread. No one would even read it.


Though I wont go into much detail but it also heavily favors mass recruitment guilds as well while at the same time screwing the smaller guilds :/ because as it stands its more of a numbers game of who can get the most people to drop a certain % of their econ. If it was more of a average per member + total donated as in each level is based on average member donated for a certain total.

Lets say each level grew by as an example using a similar formula to structures lets say base numbers similar to current structures

1 1000 * members in guild
2 1500 * members in guild
3 2250 * members in guild
4 3375 * members in guild
5 5063 * members in guild
6 7594 * members in guild
7 11391 * members in guild
8 17086 * members in guild
9 25629 * members in guild
10 38444 * members in guild
11 57666 * members in guild
12 86498 * members in guild
13 129747 * members in guild
14 194620 * members in guild
15 291930 * members in guild
16 437894 * members in guild
17 656841 * members in guild
18 985262 * members in guild
19 1477892 * members in guild
20 2216838 * members in guild

So lets say if the guild average donation as a whole was 2250 (that means if it was a 100 members total donation would be 2,250,000) it would be level 3. Its more of a rough number to prove more of a point then present as actual numbers to replace his numbers. I think anything really different puts massive advantage to larger guilds as compared to what I just suggested which puts more emphasis on what each member contributes. Also all members dont need to contribute to the guild bank to achieve higher ranks its more so to calculate what is needed by the guild to achieve another rank.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Ferdoc » Sat 01 Jan, 2011 20:38

Hellion wrote:Though I wont go into much detail but it also heavily favors mass recruitment guilds as well while at the same time screwing the smaller guilds


If you're going to take that position and I've provided metrics for your to compare things with, by all means go into the details. Its very annoying to do a lot of work to find a sensible balance to these add ons. If you're going to say it heavily favors one group over another, please do the work and show it and not make mindless claims. If you want to continue doing it, understand I will start to ignore you even if you should ever come up with a reasonable and relevant issue

Hellion wrote: because as it stands its more of a numbers game of who can get the most people to drop a certain % of their econ.


That's the entire aspect of this game. Change out guild bank with 'production' and you have how AE is right now. Or change guild bank to factions, and you have blob warfare. The concept is nothing new or different. What it does do is splinter where base econ goes. The fact is this, the foundation of current gameplay, specifically the focus on fleet, uses this concept.



Hellion wrote: If it was more of a average per member + total donated as in each level is based on average member donated for a certain total.


Not being entertained.

Hellion wrote:Lets say each level grew by as an example using a similar formula to structures lets say base numbers similar to current structures

1 1000 * members in guild
2 1500 * members in guild
3 2250 * members in guild
4 3375 * members in guild
5 5063 * members in guild
6 7594 * members in guild
7 11391 * members in guild
8 17086 * members in guild
9 25629 * members in guild
10 38444 * members in guild
11 57666 * members in guild
12 86498 * members in guild
13 129747 * members in guild
14 194620 * members in guild
15 291930 * members in guild
16 437894 * members in guild
17 656841 * members in guild
18 985262 * members in guild
19 1477892 * members in guild
20 2216838 * members in guild


I have a strong feeling you didn't do anything beyond a customary look at what this would entail.

Hellion wrote:So lets say if the guild average donation as a whole was 2250 (that means if it was a 100 members total donation would be 2,250,000)


Which would require each person's econ to be 22,500. As there is a limit of 10% of base econ. Unless of course you want to flat out remove the base econ requirement.

Hellion wrote: it would be level 3.


Which presents a massive problem of how are guilds supposed to get any real benefit from this?

You would get SI3, UPB3 and TRDI3.

SI3 is just 3% faster from JGs.
TRDI3 is 600 further distance
UPB3 is 6% bonus to unique in guild Trade routes.

Oh yea, that's a real incentive to donate to the guild bank.


Hellion wrote:Its more of a rough number to prove more of a point then present as actual numbers to replace his numbers. I think anything really different puts massive advantage to larger guilds as compared to what I just suggested which puts more emphasis on what each member contributes. Also all members dont need to contribute to the guild bank to achieve higher ranks its more so to calculate what is needed by the guild to achieve another rank.


You haven't suggested anything to improve this idea. You've suggested a complete alteration to this idea. Now there are only two outcomes of note to your suggested change.

1 - Assuming you haven't gone crazy in assuming that guilds will have an average 22,500 econ to meet the 10%, you intend to remove the 10% cap. Which, amazingly enough, creates an environment where larger more powerful guilds are able to get massive bonuses within the Guild Bases and Guild Technology concepts. Which is what Guild Banks were developed in order to support. So you want to avoid having larger more powerful guilds from getting vastly better benefits faster by removing the cap that directly prevents them from doing so. It goes without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway, that flies in the face of your assertion.


2 - You misspoke with your numbers and intended to have 12,000 econ ( 1,200 donation ) as your numbers with 100 guild members. Which would put them at level 1 rewards. 1% faster, 200 distance and 2% unique partner bonus. That's not worth anything at all for that guild to put in, and the rewards / benefits from Guild Bases and Guild Technology are far off into the future that any such donation would be fruitless.


As a final note you ignore the concept of duration. The longer you work at something, at least in many games, the better you get at it or the more rewards you achieve. You also retain those rewards, again in many games, even if you should stop working at it. Your suggestion seems to run counter to that. Players are able to achieve only a specific value of benefits and never go above it. The highest econ player is 17,238. That player is able to achieve level 8 if they put everything they get from econ into your suggestion. 8% faster off JGs, 1,600 distance increase and 16% bonus. Should they be in a guild with anyone else they'll drop, and significantly. As you base your costs off of members, which gives and advantage to older and more established guilds. I base mine off time. An older, more established guild is able to achieve great things, a top guild can reach level 20 within 4 years of Guild Bank rewards, however it will take them another 4 years to reach 21. Assuming they keep all of their banked credits in the bank and didn't spend any on Guild Bases and Guild Technology. Medium sized guilds would take around 5.5 to 6.5 years, if I remember my number correctly, to reach level 20. 1.5 to 2.5 years behind a larger, powerful guild is hardly a huge handicap.

In short if you're going to try and change the basic fundamentals of an idea, please don't use 'rough numbers' present something that's finished and balanced. Also take into consideration what is being attempted by the idea. I'm trying to create a stable and useful foundation for other ideas. You're creating a single concept that has no ability to support other aspects, let alone itself.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Hellion » Sun 02 Jan, 2011 05:11

@ferdoc

no you pretty much mistook the majority of my post. I posted it after studying for like the 7-8 hours before that so meh :P.

Anyways no that was for calculation the X amount * members to determine what the guild as a whole would of had to donate upto that point for it to achieve a certain goal. It simply takes the advantage out of the hands of simply having tons of members but over time what the average member has donated will benefit the guild more. I presumed at least slightly that over time this would be added together as in if I donate 10% for 3 hours and had 10k econ then it would go towards the bank as 3000 donated and 24000 over 24 hours donated per day.

The multiplier I spoke of would be more in the area that average members matter because lets compare 2 real simple numbers

1,000 * guildmembers

1,000 * 10 members = 10,000 ..... so a 10 member guild would require a donation of 10,000 to get to this tier
1,000 * 100 members = 100,000 ..... so a 100 member guild would require a donation of 100,000 to get to this same tier.

So it becomes what the average member is donating as compared to number of recruits.

Now this my statement isnt saying that the entire guild has to donate X% to still get same perks but rather its to calc what is required by the guild as a whole. So the 100,000 required by the 100 person guild could still get the 100,000 by only 20 people donating it just takes longer.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Ferdoc » Sun 02 Jan, 2011 06:33

I hardly mistook your premise Hellion. Your suggestion effectively guts the concept. To have a time focused reward factor to encourage guilds to donate and grow the guild bank before taking up the future additions that are based off it.

Also, you have yet to substantiate your critical claim. That this idea overly benefits larger and more powerful guilds. If I were you, I'ld focus your time and effort posting here to actually substantiate that claim.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby -Link- » Sun 02 Jan, 2011 14:36

its an unavoidable fact that the big and powerful will be able to use things better then smaller players. lets try not to dwell on that fact as that can be used against pretty much every idea that does come up

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Hellion » Sun 02 Jan, 2011 14:45

Ferdoc wrote:I hardly mistook your premise Hellion. Your suggestion effectively guts the concept. To have a time focused reward factor to encourage guilds to donate and grow the guild bank before taking up the future additions that are based off it.

Also, you have yet to substantiate your critical claim. That this idea overly benefits larger and more powerful guilds. If I were you, I'ld focus your time and effort posting here to actually substantiate that claim.


I half way figured it was explained at least twice now.

I will spell it out much more simple this time to hopefully make it the easiest possible post to understand :bleh:

Bank account (the thing u posted) grows with the player... as in lets say you have 1 mil to your name as far as bank account goes.

Now lets use your example of explaining how this works which was the 350 million needed in that example.

We now are going to take that 350 million and compare it to 2 different guilds one being 10 members in size and one being 100 members in size. One would require 35 mil in each players personal account to get the benefit as the 100 member guild having an average of 3.5 mil.

Generally what most would say is the two guilds if both contribute on average 3.5 mil per each should get a roughly fair return on said investment. This however is very far from that and would be massively more useful in the hands of much larger guilds member wise.

So besides the fact I dislike the main part of the idea as is I think if it were to be brought into place as is this would heavily favor large guilds and further push people into certain types of game play which is be in a big guild. However figured the best idea is to work towards working out the biggest problems just incase it did actually get added the numbers needed would screw quite a few guilds.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Callisto » Sun 02 Jan, 2011 18:31

-Link- wrote:its an unavoidable fact that the big and powerful will be able to use things better then smaller players. lets try not to dwell on that fact as that can be used against pretty much every idea that does come up


Isnt it like that always?


@Ferdoc
Few questions
After you deposit credits (the 10% of your hourly income) will they be possible to withdraw anytime? or will there be a 24 hours penalty or something? (i dont think i saw the answer inside, sorry if its in)

About the travel between guild bases, will there be in the units on the empire tab the speed of the guild bank modification?

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Winchester » Sun 02 Jan, 2011 21:58

Callisto wrote:
-Link- wrote:its an unavoidable fact that the big and powerful will be able to use things better then smaller players. lets try not to dwell on that fact as that can be used against pretty much every idea that does come up


Isnt it like that always?


@Ferdoc
Few questions
After you deposit credits (the 10% of your hourly income) will they be possible to withdraw anytime? or will there be a 24 hours penalty or something? (i dont think i saw the answer inside, sorry if its in)

About the travel between guild bases, will there be in the units on the empire tab the speed of the guild bank modification?


From what I recall of discussing it with Ferdoc, you can never withdraw the credits you put in. It's just like tech - once the money's gone, it's gone forever, and your account will never decrease because of it. Otherwise, this idea just becomes a way to bank credits in the personal sense.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Ferdoc » Mon 03 Jan, 2011 02:57

Hellion wrote:I half way figured it was explained at least twice now.


You've explained nothing. You've told me there is an issue with the idea, without actually proving it. You presented 'rough numbers' with little testing done behind them let alone and understanding of what this idea is trying to accomplish. Your suggestion, as it stands, benefits larger more powerful guilds, as your own numbers removed the 10% cap. Oh, wait you want to keep the 10% cap, which flies in the face of your initial presented numbers. You've explained it twice and contradicted yourself on the basic mechanics of it. So explaining it more doesn't help, explain it in detail and consistently

Hellion wrote:I will spell it out much more simple this time to hopefully make it the easiest possible post to understand


Sounds good. Lets try and get a baseline of your suggested change out with you want to have done. First off, lets have you provide proof that this idea overly benefits larger more powerful guilds.

Hellion wrote:Bank account (the thing u posted) grows with the player... as in lets say you have 1 mil to your name as far as bank account goes.


That's correct.

Hellion wrote:Now lets use your example of explaining how this works which was the 350 million needed in that example.

We now are going to take that 350 million and compare it to 2 different guilds one being 10 members in size and one being 100 members in size. One would require 35 mil in each players personal account to get the benefit as the 100 member guild having an average of 3.5 mil.


Problem 1. It would require 350 million total. Not 35 million in each player's personal account. Now, this is a red herring. You're trying to use the 10 person guild as a reason why this idea is bad. A 10 person guild can not compete with a 100 person guild, with certain exceptions. Its silly to try and change an idea to be 'fair' to everyone, as you seem to be wanting to do, when that 'fairness' penalizes larger organized guilds. Why should a 10 member guild be able to garner massive benefits far quicker and with less effort than a large guild based SOLELY on the size of the guild?


Hellion wrote:Generally what most would say


[Citation Needed]

Hellion wrote:Generally what most would say is the two guilds if both contribute on average 3.5 mil per each should get a roughly fair return on said investment. This however is very far from that and would be massively more useful in the hands of much larger guilds member wise.


Why? It punishes larger guilds just for being large. You haven't shown any reason beyond saying 'its not fair', or something to that ilk. All ideas will benefit larger guilds, period. To introduce a significant change to the idea that inherently punishes them merely because of some sort of perceived biased within the foundation of the idea is intellectual dishonesty to the highest degree. I expected far more from you. I was anticipating assertions and validations. Not wild allegations followed up by empty claims.

Hellion wrote:So besides the fact I dislike the main part of the idea


You dislike setting a foundation for future concepts to be built upon?

Hellion wrote:So besides the fact I dislike the main part of the idea as is I think if it were to be brought into place as is this would heavily favor large guilds and further push people into certain types of game play which is be in a big guild. However figured the best idea is to work towards working out the biggest problems just in case it did actually get added the numbers needed would screw quite a few guilds.



Again, with the wild assertions. Please prove to use it would heavily favor large guilds.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Zoran » Mon 03 Jan, 2011 18:55

Hellion, stop arguing with the OP, calling someone ignorant does not add to the conversation at all, it simply makes the poster mad. So its baiting in all actuality.

Ferdoc; stop being difficult. Calling for proof over and over again is not adding to the conversation, it is degrading its' effectiveness because even if they posted enough evidence, you would still disclaim it.

I've had enough of this. Do not quote me; do not pm me. Continue from this post on the topic at hand and stop bickering both of you or I'll revoke your posting rights for this board. :neutral2:

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Cabbage » Mon 03 Jan, 2011 20:56

I like it a lot Ferdoc.

Having read the entire thing ... I would like to see this implemented eventually.

It might drastically change all the servers and reduce stagnation on the servers as well, since it involves players to be more active to maintain their production queues since a % of their natural Economy is donated to the guild "bank".

The one thing I would like to see implemented into your guild bank feature are more options to choose from (instead of Economy vs Speed).

I know they are most likely going to abusable (anything apart from Economy / Speed) but I can see many guilds forcing players to donate a % of their income.

It would be nice to see the % being adjustable between 1% - > 15% instead of just 10%.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Narth Vader » Mon 03 Jan, 2011 21:06

My only qualm with this idea is that it makes the big guilds more powerful. Now where I come from, when there's a server war, that means that two massive guilds or blocs will sit on a jumpgate and blob until they can find an opportunity. In fact, most of the players are hardly active in those guilds. They'll follow fleet deployments to give the illusion of a great big blob.

And to me, this doesn't quite seem to help make big guilds any more active. And activity may not be the intended goal. But I figure that these benefits will just lead the big guilds to sim harder and blob more. Can the speed bonuses applied onto a high level JG with a high level Log commander really make enough of a difference if you're trying to raid a fortress? Or the speed bonus applied to wormholes?

While I like making trades more profitable, that certainly means a stronger economy and closes the gap between econ and prod. But after a certain point, do we particularly need that econ boost?

It doesn't really seem like the idea will contribute anything that will get players active, and I'm playing on a giant sim server where I only see this making the simming worse. And sure, you can play the game how you want, but not when you drag half the server into your blob war.

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