Guild Bank

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Ferdoc
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Joined: Wed 23 Jan, 2008 19:05
Guild: ZORAN is a GLOBAL DICTATOR!
Location: ZORAN is a GLOBAL DICTATOR!

Guild Bank

Postby Ferdoc » Fri 31 Dec, 2010 20:04

Please understand this is the original post, without all of the modifications or additions that were suggested within the original thread. As such certain posters will notice the differences from what they remember. Please feel free to inform me of the changes that you remember or any significant differences. I do ask that you please note at the top of your post that you are talking about the prior thread so that anyone reading it will understand what you are talking about With that said, let the games begin!


So, now that I have everyone angry already. Settle down, take a deep breath, maybe grab a drink.... I'l wait.


Ready yet? No? Ok. I'll give you a little bit more time.





Back? Good, ok lets have some fun... except for those of you who won' read it. There isn't going to be a TL;DR put forward by me, so if you want you can click back now and view something else. For everyone else who is ready to read, enjoy! Oh yea, The headings are going to be in green to help people who want to know what the main topics are and where they are.


So what is a Guild Bank?
A Guild Bank, simply put, is a new kind of stat which will give benefits after you achieve certain ranks. The bonuses come in three flavors, TR Unique Increase, TR Distance Increase and Speed Increase. More in depth on those later. Anyone inside of the guild is able to see the total value for the Guild Bank, but not see anyone else's individual contribution aside from their own.

How does your Guild Bank stat increase?
Just like Technology and Fleet are added up for the respective levels for your guild, the Guild Bank will be the same. However the stat for the individual will not be visible to anyone other than that player nor will it be tracked and ranked like Econ, Technology, Fleet and Experience.

How does a player increase their Personal Bank Account?
Well you are allowed to put in 10% of your hourly income into your Personal Bank Account. Debris, Pillages and Plunders can not be added to your Personal Bank Account. You can not withdraw anything that you put into this stat.

So, how does it work?
Well your guild will combine all of the Personal Bank Accounts and that will generate the Guild Bank. Yea, simple enough. Now for those of you who fear that what you put in will stay with any guilds you leave, don't fret. Just like Technology and Fleet go with you, and your previous guild's appropriate stat decreases, your Personal Bank Account goes with you as well. Allowing you to leave without fear and enjoy being able to contribute to whatever guild you wish to assist.

What do you get for this?
An increase in the number of effective unique TR partners, an increase in the distance for trade and an increase to ship speed when traveling from base to base... within your guild only. Yep, that's right you get these bonuses if and only if you and the other person share the same tag. Seems annoying to some of you I bet, but guess what? I don't care. The idea is designed to help out the guild, not just the individual player.

How does the increase in the number of effective unique TR partners work?
Well, that's simple enough to explain. As your guild increases its Guild Bank value you unlock higher and higher bonuses. If people leave your guild, and as such your Guild Bank value decreases, you could lose some bonuses. Now for the first 20 levels. of this.

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1	TR Unique Player Bonus	
lvl	cost	bonus
1	15,261	2%
2	30,523	4%
3	61,046	6%
4	122,091	8%
5	244,183	10%
6	488,366	12%
7	976,732	14%
8	1,953,463	16%
9	3,906,927	18%
10	7,813,854	20%
11	15,627,707	22%
12	31,255,415	24%
13	62,510,830	26%
14	125,021,660	28%
15	250,043,319	30%
16	500,086,639	32%
17	1,000,173,277	34%
18	2,000,346,555	36%
19	4,000,693,110	38%
20	8,001,386,219	40%
So what does that percentage bonus do for you? It gets added on to the number of unique partners you have, but only affects it if the person is in the same guild. For example, you have 20 base, 5 TRs per base. For a total of 100 possible routes. Lets say all 100 are unique and all 100 are from guild members. You would just apply the percentage from the unique partner bonus as you would apply any other bonus.

100 * (1+ Bonus) = number of bonus trade partners

For simplicity's sake, lets say your guild has level 10, meaning a 20% bonus. You would end up having 20 bonus trade partners. (100 * (1+.2) = 100 * .2 = 20). Now lets say, using the 100 Unique routes and the same bonus of 20%, you only have 40 in guild unique partners. You would have only 8 bonus trade partners.

Ok, so how does that Trade Route Distance bonus work out?
Well again, just like Unique Trade Partners when your guild is able to have a Guild Bank value high enough it unlocks bonuses to the distance of your Trade Routes. Each tier increases the distance value of your in guild trades by 1 step. Each step is 200 distance units. So lets take a look at the table.

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2	TR distance increase	
lvl	cost	bonus
1	19,077	1 step
2	38,154	2 step
3	76,307	3 step
4	152,614	4 step
5	305,229	5 step
6	610,457	6 step
7	1,220,915	7 step
8	2,441,829	8 step
9	4,883,659	9 step
10	9,767,317	10 step
11	19,534,634	11 step
12	39,069,269	12 step
13	78,138,537	13 step
14	156,277,075	14 step
15	312,554,149	15 step
16	625,108,298	16 step
17	1,250,216,597	17 step
18	2,500,433,194	18 step
19	5,000,866,387	19 step
20	10,001,732,774	20 step
Ok, lets put out a few examples. Your guild has level 10 of this as well, that's 10 steps or 2,000 more distance added onto your in guild trade routes. That makes you smile a bit. Now, lets say you have 3 Trades with guild members, one at 200 distance, one at 5,000 distance and a final one at 3,400 distance. The trade routes become 2,200, 7,000 and 6,400 respectively. Now these trades do NOT have to be unique in order to get the bonus like the TR Unique Partner Bonus. This just requires the person to be inside of your guild.

This can increase the distance beyond the normal maximum possible within AE. The additional distance is a bonus when you pillage the TR, so while it does reward you it has some additional risk added in.

Do both the Unique Trade Partners and Distance Bonus stack?
Yes, I'll explain how all of the bonuses work after the last one, ok? Good.

How does the Speed Increase thing work?
Well you get a bonus on your speed when traveling from guild base to guild base. Sounds simple enough right? Well this bonus is applied AFTER tech and JGs are applied to the speed of the units, but before a logistics commander is applied. So here's the chart.

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3	Speed increase	
lvl	cost	bonus
1	41,969	1%
2	83,938	2%
3	167,876	3%
4	335,752	4%
5	671,503	5%
6	1,343,006	6%
7	2,686,012	7%
8	5,372,024	8%
9	10,744,049	9%
10	21,488,098	10%
11	42,976,196	11%
12	85,952,391	12%
13	171,904,782	13%
14	343,809,564	14%
15	687,619,128	15%
16	1,375,238,256	16%
17	2,750,476,513	17%
18	5,500,953,026	18%
19	11,001,906,051	19%
20	22,003,812,103	20%
So how does this really work out for speed? Well lets take a look at 3 units. DN, HC and CR at warp 23 on a level 6 JG (no commander). Again, lets say your guild has the level 10 bonus.

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Unit	Speed on JG	Bonus	Effective Speed
DN	30.1	10%	33.11
HC	45.15	10%	49.665
CR	60.2	10%	66.22

Ok, so how does all of this REALLY work?
Well your guild's Guild Bank value is compared to all of the lists and you get the highest bonuses for each category that meet or are below your Guild Bank value. So if your guild manages to pull in 350,000,000 as their Guild Bank value, they would be able to unlock and have automatically applied level 15 Unique Trade Partner, level 15 Distance Bonus AND level 14 Speed Bonus. All bonuses when 'unlocked' are automatically applied, no matter what, each higher level replaces the lower levels, however if you drop below certain point levels your bonuses could decrease one level or more. Confused? Yea, I think some of you might be, others might get it but want to see more. So, I'll give everyone another list to look at and get an idea of what's going on.

Ok, let me explain what the list is going to have. Its going to have 3 abbreviations. UPB, TRDI, and SI. UPB is Unique Player Bonus. TRDI is Trade Route Distance Increase. SI is Speed Increase. After each abbreviation is a number, that number is the level within that grouping. That's all in Column 1. In Column 2 you'll see the cost starting at the lowest and increasing to the highest. In the third column you'll see the bonus you achieve that is appropriate to what is in the first column. So without further adieu, here is the bonus list.

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lvl	cost	bonus
UPB1	15,261	2%
TRDI1	19,077	1 step
UPB2	30,523	4%
TRDI2	38,154	2 step
SI1	41,969	1%
UPB3	61,046	6%
TRDI3	76,307	3 step
SI2	83,938	2%
UPB4	122,091	8%
TRDI4	152,614	4 step
SI3	167,876	3%
UPB5	244,183	10%
TRDI5	305,229	5 step
SI4	335,752	4%
UPB6	488,366	12%
TRDI6	610,457	6 step
SI5	671,503	5%
UPB7	976,732	14%
TRDI7	1,220,915	7 step
SI6	1,343,006	6%
UPB8	1,953,463	16%
TRDI8	2,441,829	8 step
SI7	2,686,012	7%
UPB9	3,906,927	18%
TRDI9	4,883,659	9 step
SI8	5,372,024	8%
UPB10	7,813,854	20%
TRDI10	9,767,317	10 step
SI9	10,744,049	9%
UPB11	15,627,707	22%
TRDI11	19,534,634	11 step
SI10	21,488,098	10%
UPB12	31,255,415	24%
TRDI12	39,069,269	12 step
SI11	42,976,196	11%
UPB13	62,510,830	26%
TRDI13	78,138,537	13 step
SI12	85,952,391	12%
UPB14	125,021,660	28%
TRDI14	156,277,075	14 step
SI13	171,904,782	13%
UPB15	250,043,319	30%
TRDI15	312,554,149	15 step
SI14	343,809,564	14%
UPB16	500,086,639	32%
TRDI16	625,108,298	16 step
SI15	687,619,128	15%
UPB17	1,000,173,277	34%
TRDI17	1,250,216,597	17 step
SI16	1,375,238,256	16%
UPB18	2,000,346,555	36%
TRDI18	2,500,433,194	18 step
SI17	2,750,476,513	17%
UPB19	4,000,693,110	38%
TRDI19	5,000,866,387	19 step
SI18	5,500,953,026	18%
UPB20	8,001,386,219	40%
TRDI20	10,001,732,774	20 step
SI19	11,001,906,051	19%
SI20	22,003,812,103	20%
So as you can see when you achieve a higher Guild Bank value you unlock more bonuses across the board. You do NOT have to spend anything in order to get the bonuses. You just achieve them as you accumulate Guild Banks Value. So there is no need to choose from TR Distance Increase, Increase to Unique Partners or Speed Increase.


Data Time - below is just a lay down of the information that I've pulled in order to detail out the FR. Read the below and understand that the data will mostly speak for itself.

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Income using markers		
	Generic Guild - XYZ	
Income up to	total	10%
6 months	1,346,104,524	134,610,452
12 months	2,099,100,400	209,910,040
24 months	5,158,137,952	515,813,795
48 months	11,400,122,672	1,140,012,267
Total	20,003,465,548	2,000,346,555
I used the above as the marker for the soft cap for the top ranked guilds. To come to the above I used the below info sets as baseline.

Each Code box will be setup to display the guild ranks for level sorting according to economy from the ranking page. The first set of numbers is full econ per hour, then per day, then per year, then over 4 years. The second set is as if all members in the guild were to donate the full 10% of their economy all the time.

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Rank	1			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	1,086,449	26,074,776	9,517,293,240	38,069,172,960
Beta	1,732,956	41,590,944	15,180,694,560	60,722,778,240
Ceti	1,004,805	24,115,320	8,802,091,800	35,208,367,200
Delta	1,189,231	28,541,544	10,417,663,560	41,670,654,240
Epsilon	981,295	23,551,080	8,596,144,200	34,384,576,800
Fenix	1,062,531	25,500,744	9,307,771,560	37,231,086,240
Gamma	469,107	11,258,568	4,109,377,320	16,437,509,280
Helion	406,898	9,765,552	3,564,426,480	14,257,705,920
				
Full 10% for each guild				
				
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	108,645	2,607,478	951,729,324	3,806,917,296
Beta	173,296	4,159,094	1,518,069,456	6,072,277,824
Ceti	100,481	2,411,532	880,209,180	3,520,836,720
Delta	118,923	2,854,154	1,041,766,356	4,167,065,424
Epsilon	98,130	2,355,108	859,614,420	3,438,457,680
Fenix	106,253	2,550,074	930,777,156	3,723,108,624
Gamma	46,911	1,125,857	410,937,732	1,643,750,928
Helion	40,690	976,555	356,442,648	1,425,770,592

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Rank	2			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	679,522	16,308,528	5,952,612,720	23,810,450,880
Beta	1,243,958	29,854,992	10,897,072,080	43,588,288,320
Ceti	972,603	23,342,472	8,520,002,280	34,080,009,120
Delta	830,186	19,924,464	7,272,429,360	29,089,717,440
Epsilon	894,896	21,477,504	7,839,288,960	31,357,155,840
Fenix	980,310	23,527,440	8,587,515,600	34,350,062,400
Gamma	449,811	10,795,464	3,940,344,360	15,761,377,440
Helion	356,029	8,544,696	3,118,814,040	12,475,256,160
				
Full 10% for each guild				

	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	67,952	1,630,853	595,261,272	2,381,045,088
Beta	124,396	2,985,499	1,089,707,208	4,358,828,832
Ceti	97,260	2,334,247	852,000,228	3,408,000,912
Delta	83,019	1,992,446	727,242,936	2,908,971,744
Epsilon	89,490	2,147,750	783,928,896	3,135,715,584
Fenix	98,031	2,352,744	858,751,560	3,435,006,240
Gamma	44,981	1,079,546	394,034,436	1,576,137,744
Helion	35,603	854,470	311,881,404	1,247,525,616

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Rank	3			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	635,387	15,249,288	5,565,990,120	22,263,960,480
Beta	671,490	16,115,760	5,882,252,400	23,529,009,600
Ceti	930,514	22,332,336	8,151,302,640	32,605,210,560
Delta	815,047	19,561,128	7,139,811,720	28,559,246,880
Epsilon	847,831	20,347,944	7,426,999,560	29,707,998,240
Fenix	613,520	14,724,480	5,374,435,200	21,497,740,800
Gamma	418,219	10,037,256	3,663,598,440	14,654,393,760
Helion	296,699	7,120,776	2,599,083,240	10,396,332,960
				
Full 10% for each guild				
				
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	63,539	1,524,929	556,599,012	2,226,396,048
Beta	67,149	1,611,576	588,225,240	2,352,900,960
Ceti	93,051	2,233,234	815,130,264	3,260,521,056
Delta	81,505	1,956,113	713,981,172	2,855,924,688
Epsilon	84,783	2,034,794	742,699,956	2,970,799,824
Fenix	61,352	1,472,448	537,443,520	2,149,774,080
Gamma	41,822	1,003,726	366,359,844	1,465,439,376
Helion	29,670	712,078	259,908,324	1,039,633,296

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Rank	4			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	602,934	14,470,416	5,281,701,840	21,126,807,360
Beta	655,902	15,741,648	5,745,701,520	22,982,806,080
Ceti	913,177	21,916,248	7,999,430,520	31,997,722,080
Delta	787,393	18,897,432	6,897,562,680	27,590,250,720
Epsilon	789,539	18,948,936	6,916,361,640	27,665,446,560
Fenix	575,176	13,804,224	5,038,541,760	20,154,167,040
Gamma	395,222	9,485,328	3,462,144,720	13,848,578,880
Helion	194,990	4,679,760	1,708,112,400	6,832,449,600
				
Full 10% for each guild				

	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	60,293	1,447,042	528,170,184	2,112,680,736
Beta	65,590	1,574,165	574,570,152	2,298,280,608
Ceti	91,318	2,191,625	799,943,052	3,199,772,208
Delta	78,739	1,889,743	689,756,268	2,759,025,072
Epsilon	78,954	1,894,894	691,636,164	2,766,544,656
Fenix	57,518	1,380,422	503,854,176	2,015,416,704
Gamma	39,522	948,533	346,214,472	1,384,857,888
Helion	19,499	467,976	170,811,240	683,244,960

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Rank	5			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	599,570	14,389,680	5,252,233,200	21,008,932,800
Beta	651,994	15,647,856	5,711,467,440	22,845,869,760
Ceti	776,420	18,634,080	6,801,439,200	27,205,756,800
Delta	763,178	18,316,272	6,685,439,280	26,741,757,120
Epsilon	576,501	13,836,024	5,050,148,760	20,200,595,040
Fenix	508,041	12,192,984	4,450,439,160	17,801,756,640
Gamma	321,267	7,710,408	2,814,298,920	11,257,195,680
Helion	189,199	4,540,776	1,657,383,240	6,629,532,960
				
Full 10% for each guild				

	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	59,957	1,438,968	525,223,320	2,100,893,280
Beta	65,199	1,564,786	571,146,744	2,284,586,976
Ceti	77,642	1,863,408	680,143,920	2,720,575,680
Delta	76,318	1,831,627	668,543,928	2,674,175,712
Epsilon	57,650	1,383,602	505,014,876	2,020,059,504
Fenix	50,804	1,219,298	445,043,916	1,780,175,664
Gamma	32,127	771,041	281,429,892	1,125,719,568
Helion	18,920	454,078	165,738,324	662,953,296

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Rank	6			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	563,648	13,527,552	4,937,556,480	19,750,225,920
Beta	626,671	15,040,104	5,489,637,960	21,958,551,840
Ceti	724,212	17,381,088	6,344,097,120	25,376,388,480
Delta	696,396	16,713,504	6,100,428,960	24,401,715,840
Epsilon	549,576	13,189,824	4,814,285,760	19,257,143,040
Fenix	467,067	11,209,608	4,091,506,920	16,366,027,680
Gamma	302,630	7,263,120	2,651,038,800	10,604,155,200
Helion	175,095	4,202,280	1,533,832,200	6,135,328,800
				
Full 10% for each guild				

	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	56,365	1,352,755	493,755,648	1,975,022,592
Beta	62,667	1,504,010	548,963,796	2,195,855,184
Ceti	72,421	1,738,109	634,409,712	2,537,638,848
Delta	69,640	1,671,350	610,042,896	2,440,171,584
Epsilon	54,958	1,318,982	481,428,576	1,925,714,304
Fenix	46,707	1,120,961	409,150,692	1,636,602,768
Gamma	30,263	726,312	265,103,880	1,060,415,520
Helion	17,510	420,228	153,383,220	613,532,880

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Rank	7			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	553,004	13,272,096	4,844,315,040	19,377,260,160
Beta	584,773	14,034,552	5,122,611,480	20,490,445,920
Ceti	722,564	17,341,536	6,329,660,640	25,318,642,560
Delta	566,662	13,599,888	4,963,959,120	19,855,836,480
Epsilon	499,822	11,995,728	4,378,440,720	17,513,762,880
Fenix	429,821	10,315,704	3,765,231,960	15,060,927,840
Gamma	302,176	7,252,224	2,647,061,760	10,588,247,040
Helion	174,501	4,188,024	1,528,628,760	6,114,515,040
				
Full 10% for each guild				

	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	55,300	1,327,210	484,431,504	1,937,726,016
Beta	58,477	1,403,455	512,261,148	2,049,044,592
Ceti	72,256	1,734,154	632,966,064	2,531,864,256
Delta	56,666	1,359,989	496,395,912	1,985,583,648
Epsilon	49,982	1,199,573	437,844,072	1,751,376,288
Fenix	42,982	1,031,570	376,523,196	1,506,092,784
Gamma	30,218	725,222	264,706,176	1,058,824,704
Helion	17,450	418,802	152,862,876	611,451,504

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Rank	8			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	544,366	13,064,784	4,768,646,160	19,074,584,640
Beta	557,392	13,377,408	4,882,753,920	19,531,015,680
Ceti	501,521	12,036,504	4,393,323,960	17,573,295,840
Delta	565,829	13,579,896	4,956,662,040	19,826,648,160
Epsilon	442,702	10,624,848	3,878,069,520	15,512,278,080
Fenix	422,725	10,145,400	3,703,071,000	14,812,284,000
Gamma	266,484	6,395,616	2,334,399,840	9,337,599,360
Helion	167,316	4,015,584	1,465,688,160	5,862,752,640
				
Full 10% for each guild				

	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	54,437	1,306,478	476,864,616	1,907,458,464
Beta	55,739	1,337,741	488,275,392	1,953,101,568
Ceti	50,152	1,203,650	439,332,396	1,757,329,584
Delta	56,583	1,357,990	495,666,204	1,982,664,816
Epsilon	44,270	1,062,485	387,806,952	1,551,227,808
Fenix	42,273	1,014,540	370,307,100	1,481,228,400
Gamma	26,648	639,562	233,439,984	933,759,936
Helion	16,732	401,558	146,568,816	586,275,264

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Rank	9			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	492,993	11,831,832	4,318,618,680	17,274,474,720
Beta	505,510	12,132,240	4,428,267,600	17,713,070,400
Ceti	500,195	12,004,680	4,381,708,200	17,526,832,800
Delta	534,464	12,827,136	4,681,904,640	18,727,618,560
Epsilon	422,067	10,129,608	3,697,306,920	14,789,227,680
Fenix	402,286	9,654,864	3,524,025,360	14,096,101,440
Gamma	259,964	6,239,136	2,277,284,640	9,109,138,560
Helion	134,597	3,230,328	1,179,069,720	4,716,278,880
				
Full 10% for each guild				

	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	49,299	1,183,183	431,861,868	1,727,447,472
Beta	50,551	1,213,224	442,826,760	1,771,307,040
Ceti	50,020	1,200,468	438,170,820	1,752,683,280
Delta	53,446	1,282,714	468,190,464	1,872,761,856
Epsilon	42,207	1,012,961	369,730,692	1,478,922,768
Fenix	40,229	965,486	352,402,536	1,409,610,144
Gamma	25,996	623,914	227,728,464	910,913,856
Helion	13,460	323,033	117,906,972	471,627,888

Code: Select all

Rank	10			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	463,206	11,116,944	4,057,684,560	16,230,738,240
Beta	497,823	11,947,752	4,360,929,480	17,443,717,920
Ceti	459,986	11,039,664	4,029,477,360	16,117,909,440
Delta	510,475	12,251,400	4,471,761,000	17,887,044,000
Epsilon	401,974	9,647,376	3,521,292,240	14,085,168,960
Fenix	364,957	8,758,968	3,197,023,320	12,788,093,280
Gamma	253,175	6,076,200	2,217,813,000	8,871,252,000
Helion	129,058	3,097,392	1,130,548,080	4,522,192,320
				
Full 10% for each guild				

	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	46,321	1,111,694	405,768,456	1,623,073,824
Beta	49,782	1,194,775	436,092,948	1,744,371,792
Ceti	45,999	1,103,966	402,947,736	1,611,790,944
Delta	51,048	1,225,140	447,176,100	1,788,704,400
Epsilon	40,197	964,738	352,129,224	1,408,516,896
Fenix	36,496	875,897	319,702,332	1,278,809,328
Gamma	25,318	607,620	221,781,300	887,125,200
Helion	12,906	309,739	113,054,808	452,219,232

Code: Select all

Rank	11			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	445,542	10,693,008	3,902,947,920	15,611,791,680
Beta	441,566	10,597,584	3,868,118,160	15,472,472,640
Ceti	364,821	8,755,704	3,195,831,960	12,783,327,840
Delta	363,176	8,716,224	3,181,421,760	12,725,687,040
Epsilon	353,654	8,487,696	3,098,009,040	12,392,036,160
Fenix	330,976	7,943,424	2,899,349,760	11,597,399,040
Gamma	250,874	6,020,976	2,197,656,240	8,790,624,960
Helion	107,533	2,580,792	941,989,080	3,767,956,320
				
Full 10% for each guild				

	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	44,554	1,069,301	390,294,792	1,561,179,168
Beta	44,157	1,059,758	386,811,816	1,547,247,264
Ceti	36,482	875,570	319,583,196	1,278,332,784
Delta	36,318	871,622	318,142,176	1,272,568,704
Epsilon	35,365	848,770	309,800,904	1,239,203,616
Fenix	33,098	794,342	289,934,976	1,159,739,904
Gamma	25,087	602,098	219,765,624	879,062,496
Helion	10,753	258,079	94,198,908	376,795,632

Code: Select all

Rank	12			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	437,057	10,489,368	3,828,619,320	15,314,477,280
Beta	438,358	10,520,592	3,840,016,080	15,360,064,320
Ceti	349,165	8,379,960	3,058,685,400	12,234,741,600
Delta	356,712	8,561,088	3,124,797,120	12,499,188,480
Epsilon	311,655	7,479,720	2,730,097,800	10,920,391,200
Fenix	270,026	6,480,624	2,365,427,760	9,461,711,040
Gamma	250,587	6,014,088	2,195,142,120	8,780,568,480
Helion	106,314	2,551,536	931,310,640	3,725,242,560
				
Full 10% for each guild				

	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	43,706	1,048,937	382,861,932	1,531,447,728
Beta	43,836	1,052,059	384,001,608	1,536,006,432
Ceti	34,917	837,996	305,868,540	1,223,474,160
Delta	35,671	856,109	312,479,712	1,249,918,848
Epsilon	31,166	747,972	273,009,780	1,092,039,120
Fenix	27,003	648,062	236,542,776	946,171,104
Gamma	25,059	601,409	219,514,212	878,056,848
Helion	10,631	255,154	93,131,064	372,524,256

Code: Select all

Rank	13			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	425,815	10,219,560	3,730,139,400	14,920,557,600
Beta	400,610	9,614,640	3,509,343,600	14,037,374,400
Ceti	336,475	8,075,400	2,947,521,000	11,790,084,000
Delta	293,705	7,048,920	2,572,855,800	10,291,423,200
Epsilon	243,630	5,847,120	2,134,198,800	8,536,795,200
Fenix	267,453	6,418,872	2,342,888,280	9,371,553,120
Gamma	248,433	5,962,392	2,176,273,080	8,705,092,320
Helion	102,687	2,464,488	899,538,120	3,598,152,480
				
Full 10% for each guild				

	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	42,582	1,021,956	373,013,940	1,492,055,760
Beta	40,061	961,464	350,934,360	1,403,737,440
Ceti	33,648	807,540	294,752,100	1,179,008,400
Delta	29,371	704,892	257,285,580	1,029,142,320
Epsilon	24,363	584,712	213,419,880	853,679,520
Fenix	26,745	641,887	234,288,828	937,155,312
Gamma	24,843	596,239	217,627,308	870,509,232
Helion	10,269	246,449	89,953,812	359,815,248

Code: Select all

Rank	14			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	417,664	10,023,936	3,658,736,640	14,634,946,560
Beta	385,571	9,253,704	3,377,601,960	13,510,407,840
Ceti	285,413	6,849,912	2,500,217,880	10,000,871,520
Delta	284,703	6,832,872	2,493,998,280	9,975,993,120
Epsilon	219,603	5,270,472	1,923,722,280	7,694,889,120
Fenix	262,098	6,290,352	2,295,978,480	9,183,913,920
Gamma	216,035	5,184,840	1,892,466,600	7,569,866,400
Helion	100,108	2,402,592	876,946,080	3,507,784,320
				
Full 10% for each guild				

	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	41,766	1,002,394	365,873,664	1,463,494,656
Beta	38,557	925,370	337,760,196	1,351,040,784
Ceti	28,541	684,991	250,021,788	1,000,087,152
Delta	28,470	683,287	249,399,828	997,599,312
Epsilon	21,960	527,047	192,372,228	769,488,912
Fenix	26,210	629,035	229,597,848	918,391,392
Gamma	21,604	518,484	189,246,660	756,986,640
Helion	10,011	240,259	87,694,608	350,778,432

Code: Select all

Rank	15			
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	415,459	9,971,016	3,639,420,840	14,557,683,360
Beta	365,805	8,779,320	3,204,451,800	12,817,807,200
Ceti	278,067	6,673,608	2,435,866,920	9,743,467,680
Delta	275,271	6,606,504	2,411,373,960	9,645,495,840
Epsilon	201,836	4,844,064	1,768,083,360	7,072,333,440
Fenix	231,713	5,561,112	2,029,805,880	8,119,223,520
Gamma	205,963	4,943,112	1,804,235,880	7,216,943,520
Helion	90,527	2,172,648	793,016,520	3,172,066,080
				
Full 10% for each guild				

	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	41,546	997,102	363,942,084	1,455,768,336
Beta	36,581	877,932	320,445,180	1,281,780,720
Ceti	27,807	667,361	243,586,692	974,346,768
Delta	27,527	660,650	241,137,396	964,549,584
Epsilon	20,184	484,406	176,808,336	707,233,344
Fenix	23,171	556,111	202,980,588	811,922,352
Gamma	20,596	494,311	180,423,588	721,694,352
Helion	9,053	217,265	79,301,652	317,206,608
With all of the above I was able to pull out the following. These are the averages for the ranks across the servers, all rank 1s are averaged, all rank 2s are averaged etc.

Code: Select all

Averages		full econ		
Ranked	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
1	991,659	23,799,816	8,686,932,840	34,747,731,360
2	800,914	19,221,945	7,016,009,925	28,064,039,700
3	653,588	15,686,121	5,725,434,165	22,901,736,660
4	614,292	14,742,999	5,381,194,635	21,524,778,540
5	548,271	13,158,510	4,802,856,150	19,211,424,600
6	513,162	12,315,885	4,495,298,025	17,981,192,100
7	479,165	11,499,969	4,197,488,685	16,789,954,740
8	433,542	10,405,005	3,797,826,825	15,191,307,300
9	406,510	9,756,228	3,561,023,220	14,244,092,880
10	385,082	9,241,962	3,373,316,130	13,493,264,520
11	332,268	7,974,426	2,910,665,490	11,642,661,960
12	314,984	7,559,622	2,759,262,030	11,037,048,120
13	289,851	6,956,424	2,539,094,760	10,156,379,040
14	271,399	6,513,585	2,377,458,525	9,509,834,100
15	258,080	6,193,923	2,260,781,895	9,043,127,580
				
Averages		10%		
Ranked	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
1	99,166	2,379,982	868,693,284	3,474,773,136
2	80,091	1,922,195	701,600,993	2,806,403,970
3	65,359	1,568,612	572,543,417	2,290,173,666
4	61,429	1,474,300	538,119,464	2,152,477,854
5	54,827	1,315,851	480,285,615	1,921,142,460
6	51,316	1,231,589	449,529,803	1,798,119,210
7	47,917	1,149,997	419,748,869	1,678,995,474
8	43,354	1,040,501	379,782,683	1,519,130,730
9	40,651	975,623	356,102,322	1,424,409,288
10	38,508	924,196	337,331,613	1,349,326,452
11	33,227	797,443	291,066,549	1,164,266,196
12	31,498	755,962	275,926,203	1,103,704,812
13	28,985	695,642	253,909,476	1,015,637,904
14	27,140	651,359	237,745,853	950,983,410
15	25,808	619,392	226,078,190	904,312,758

Then after some examination I decided to take the ranks INSIDE of the servers, alpha in one average, all beta in one average etc. And produced the following.

Code: Select all

Averages per server			Total	
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	557,508	13,380,186	4,883,767,744	19,535,070,976
Beta	650,692	15,616,606	5,700,061,336	22,800,245,344
Ceti	607,996	14,591,901	5,326,043,792	21,304,175,168
Delta	588,829	14,131,885	5,158,137,952	20,632,551,808
Epsilon	515,772	12,378,530	4,518,163,304	18,072,653,216
Fenix	479,247	11,501,920	4,198,200,800	16,792,803,200
Gamma	307,330	7,375,915	2,692,209,048	10,768,836,192
Helion	182,103	4,370,482	1,595,225,784	6,380,903,136
				
Averages per server			10%	
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Alpha	55,751	1,338,019	488,376,774	1,953,507,098
Beta	65,069	1,561,661	570,006,134	2,280,024,534
Ceti	60,800	1,459,190	532,604,379	2,130,417,517
Delta	58,883	1,413,188	515,813,795	2,063,255,181
Epsilon	51,577	1,237,853	451,816,330	1,807,265,322
Fenix	47,925	1,150,192	419,820,080	1,679,280,320
Gamma	30,733	737,592	269,220,905	1,076,883,619
Helion	18,210	437,048	159,522,578	638,090,314

From there I took certain time points of server ages and came with the following 4 servers to use as predictive time points, based on econ growth and server existance.

Code: Select all

Averages per server			Total	
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Beta	650,692	15,616,606	5,700,061,336	22,800,245,344	4 year marker
Delta	588,829	14,131,885	5,158,137,952	20,632,551,808	2 year marker
Fenix	479,247	11,501,920	4,198,200,800	16,792,803,200	1 year marker
Gamma	307,330	7,375,915	2,692,209,048	10,768,836,192	6 month marker

Averages per server			10%	
	per hour	per day	per year	over 4 years
Beta	65,069	1,561,661	570,006,134	2,280,024,534	4 year marker
Delta	58,883	1,413,188	515,813,795	2,063,255,181	2 year marker
Fenix	47,925	1,150,192	419,820,080	1,679,280,320	1 year marker
Gamma	30,733	737,592	269,220,905	1,076,883,619	6 month marker
The above is what I used to create the generic guild example I listed before. That generic guild was used to set the soft cap you could achieve within 4 years of saving a max of 10%.

To further provide information of how the data was pulled, below are the guilds that I used, seperated out from server to server starting with the oldest (alpha) and proceeding to the youngest (Helion)

Alpha

Code: Select all

Rank	Guild	Name	Economy	Members	avg. per member
1	[BORG] 	Of_BORG	1,086,449	124	8,762
2	[9th] 	9th Raven Corps	679,522	96	7,078
3	[-Min-] 	Minbari Federation	635,387	79	8,043
4	[CoRM] 	Confederation of the Red Moon	602,934	67	8,999
5	[13th] 	13th Wolf Guards	599,570	58	10,337
6	[NPO] 	New Planetary Order	563,648	84	6,710
7	[42AO] 	Arkhe Theia	553,004	102	5,422
8	[RL] 	Rainbow Llamas	544,366	89	6,116
9	[X.Org] 	X. Organization	492,993	73	6,753
10	[AzTEC] 	AzTEC	463,206	44	10,527
11	[=A=] 	Arachnid Battalion	445,542	53	8,406
12	[SIR] 	Sovereign Imperial Republic	437,057	71	6,156
13	[CLS] 	Celestial Guardians	425,815	55	7,742
14	[RFA] 	The Realm of Free Astros	417,664	81	5,156
15	[¤KL¤] 	Kayoss Legions	415,459	76	5,467
Beta

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Rank	Guild	Name	Economy	Members	avg. per member
1	[AA] 	ASTROHOLICS ANONYMOUS	1,732,956	219	7,913
2	[CHAOS] 	Chaos	1,243,958	184	6,761
3	[-PM-] 	Project Meteor	671,490	72	9,326
4	[BLOOD] 	BLOOD	655,902	96	6,832
5	[★MI5★] 	SPOOKS	651,994	127	5,134
6	[~BG~] 	The Brotherhood of Guardians	626,671	113	5,546
7	[DERP] 	How does I form babby?	584,773	88	6,645
8	[FAIL] 	Failure is an airborne contaminant	557,392	56	9,953
9	[GOON] 	Dude, Where Is My Excel Sheet	505,510	68	7,434
10	[LoT] 	Legions of the Twilight	497,823	92	5,411
11	[PT☩SS] 	SS Cruz de Cristo ☩	441,566	57	7,747
12	[S³D] 	We Love Furries	438,358	78	5,620
13	[¤S¤] 	Serenity Warriors	400,610	51	7,855
14	[{CM}] 	The Crimson Mercenaries	385,571	106	3,637
15	[◣_◢] 	Wicked	365,805	51	7,173
Ceti

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Rank	Guild	Name	Economy	Members	avg. per member
1	[13th] 	13th Wolf Guards	1,004,805	177	5,677
2	[ÐεvιL] 	Devils Brigade	972,603	133	7,313
3	[SMURF] 	SMURFS	930,514	120	7,754
4	[HeiHo] 	The Art Of War	913,177	159	5,743
5	[DWH] 	Derbz with Honourz	776,420	87	8,924
6	[NFFY] 	No Fun For You	724,212	93	7,787
7	[Dojo] 	The Warriors Academy	722,564	134	5,392
8	[Om~Lo] 	Oompa-Loompa	501,521	85	5,900
9	[SSJ] 	Serious Space Jokes	500,195	56	8,932
10	[*ASG*] 	Asgards	459,986	98	4,694
11	[eX] 	Exodus	364,821	55	6,633
12	[SETDT] 	The Dark Templars and Settlers	349,165	50	6,983
13	[WRYS] 	We Recycling Your Ships	336,475	52	6,471
14	[BSMF] 	Brock Samsons Murder Face	285,413	45	6,343
15	[^.^] 	Kittens of War !	278,067	64	4,345
Delta

Code: Select all

Rank	Guild	Name	Economy	Members	avg. per member
1	[TAG] 	You Are It!	1,189,231	196	6,068
2	[ÐεvιL] 	Devils Brigade	830,186	133	6,242
3	[WMD] 	Weapons of Mass Destruction	815,047	101	8,070
4	[GRITS] 	Ghost Riders in the Sky	787,393	119	6,617
5	[FLEET] 	FLEET	763,178	109	7,002
6	[SWARM] 	The Swarm of Chaos	696,396	120	5,803
7	[AYAYA] 	Internet Supercrusaders	566,662	68	8,333
8	[NeM] 	Unforgiven Nemesis	565,829	110	5,144
9	[-=Z=-] 	Zephyr	534,464	63	8,484
10	[CFF] 	Canisius Fusion Federation	510,475	86	5,936
11	[_U_] 	Underdark	363,176	50	7,264
12	[GN] 	The Grey Knights	356,712	101	3,532
13	[LSD] 	Loonatics in Space with Debris	293,705	47	6,249
14	[GOMN] 	Get off my nuts	284,703	33	8,627
15	[FAN] 	Federation of Armed Nations	275,271	54	5,098
Epsilon

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Rank	Guild	Name	Economy	Members	avg. per member
1	[Fate] 	Vacation Mode ftw	981,295	166	5,911
2	[UKoE] 	United Knights of Epsilon	894,896	181	4,944
3	[SiN] 	Original Sin	847,831	112	7,570
4	[DMTNT] 	Ghostship	789,539	126	6,266
5	[3SUM] 	3 Seconds Until Mayhem	576,501	92	6,266
6	[LAAN] 	The Landsraad	549,576	101	5,441
7	[Ashes] 	Burn it all.	499,822	73	6,847
8	[GOON] 	Knights in service of Veni Vidi Vici	442,702	62	7,140
9	[FTW] 	Farm To Win	422,067	59	7,154
10	[ANTI] 	Anti-	401,974	90	4,466
11	[SWAG] 	Stop Whining its A Game	353,654	67	5,278
12	[MOB] 	The Mafia	311,655	52	5,993
13	[7E²] 	The Empire of Liberty	243,630	63	3,867
14	[UCORP] 	United Knights Academy of Epsilon	219,603	79	2,780
15	[STOP] 	Hammertime	201,836	40	5,046
Fenix

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Rank	Guild	Name	Economy	Members	avg. per member
1	[TE] 	Total Eclipse	1,062,531	222	4,786
2	[MIT] 	Made in Taiwan	980,310	167	5,870
3	[DMTNT] 	Swashbucklers	613,520	204	3,007
4	[~JR~] 	Jolly Roger	575,176	121	4,754
5	[EAA] 	EVIL AXIS ALLIANCE	508,041	217	2,341
6	[Fate] 	Five Across the Eye	467,067	99	4,718
7	[.:§:.] 	Dark Squadron	429,821	154	2,791
8	[!!!!!] 	We Never Sleep	422,725	85	4,973
9	[DiBz] 	On Your Derbz	402,286	68	5,916
10	[FYAD] 	Space Camp	364,957	80	4,562
11	[-SCS-] 	Skull and Crossbones Society	330,976	125	2,648
12	[NøiSe] 	We iz in teh Background	270,026	49	5,511
13	[AE] 	Adult Entertainment	267,453	45	5,943
14	[RAVE] 	Random Acts of Violence Everywhere	262,098	47	5,577
15	[NiNJA] 	NINJA reborn	231,713	61	3,799
Gamma

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Rank	Guild	Name	Economy	Members	avg. per member
1	[=?=] 	Enigma	469,107	87	5,392
2	[WL] 	WaR LegenD	449,811	86	5,230
3	[Oy] 	Miekkas Marauders	418,219	182	2,298
4	[HERØ] 	LØRDS ØF WAR	395,222	82	4,820
5	[RAGE] 	Nerd Rage at its Best	321,267	88	3,651
6	[TEARS] 	WL Fuels Our Spaceboats	302,630	76	3,982
7	[¢hAØs] 	Organised Chaos	302,176	98	3,083
8	[PUB] 	Party at Ur Blob	266,484	79	3,373
9	[GLAM] 	BulletProof Ponies	259,964	57	4,561
10	[STEEL] 	Steel Alliance	253,175	97	2,610
11	[UFP] 	United Federation of Planets	250,874	110	2,281
12	[(-o-)] 	PoKéMoN	250,587	58	4,320
13	[BEAR] 	.....attacks golfers... true story!	248,433	62	4,007
14	[CC] 	Cutthroat Commanders	216,035	124	1,742
15	[=¿=] 	Riddle	205,963	56	3,678
Helion

Code: Select all

Rank	Guild	Name	Economy	Members	avg. per member
1	[MD] 	Moral Decay	406,898	162	2,512
2	[stx] 	Stickmen *o|-(	356,029	124	2,871
3	[187] 	Gangstas in Space	296,699	120	2,472
4	[H-IV] 	»Fjórir«	194,990	77	2,532
5	[5150] 	Insane Space Pilots	189,199	72	2,628
6	[~DD~] 	Death Dealers	175,095	95	1,843
7	[VIVA] 	La Revolución	174,501	95	1,837
8	[SPORK] 	We Do It All	167,316	103	1,624
9	[=I=] 	Inquisition	134,597	165	816
10	[RD] 	Reservoir Dogs	129,058	44	2,933
11	[CMFs] 	Cool Mother Fighters	107,533	77	1,397
12	[Pub-E] 	Pubbies R Us	106,314	74	1,437
13	[~LAG~] 	The Server will close in 32 seconds	102,687	95	1,081
14	[BASES] 	Where are yours	100,108	73	1,371
15	[~DDD~] 	Death Dealer Disciples	90,527	98	924
The server times were not saved at the time of the snapshot for data.




As promised my 10,000th post was a special one, it was somethign quite rare. A Feature Request from me. I hope you have enjoyed reading this FR as much a I had creating it. Please feel free to say as little or as much as you want in regards to this FR.


Edit - Any chages done to the above will be listed in blue.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Hellion » Sat 01 Jan, 2011 01:15

Its essentially a econ boost for the sake of an econ boost. Its very similar to the econ techs that are usually shot down viciously except on a guild level. If we were ever to incorporate a guild bank id really prefer it to be in the direction of guild bonuses that matter to the guild more such as fleet bonuses, speed bonuses, defensive bonuses, etc. If you want to give people the ability to boost their overall econ I think it should be part of the choices for the guild bank but with the other options available or simply to leave it as a tech that can be researched instead because essentially its really the same thing just requires more people to contribute to achieve a higher payoff.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Winchester » Sat 01 Jan, 2011 10:54

Hellion, the Guild Bank isn't a standalone idea. I'm assuming that the econ boosts are meant to provide a bonus to the player even before the guild gets going on projects, so that people will increase their donation amount at the beginning of the feature launch/new servers/etc. Remember, it will take time to build up a sum in the GB, which means that some players will balk, thus delaying the ability to do things with the GB. This is foundational for more of Ferdoc's ideas - some of which have been posted already - and as such shouldn't be judged by its standalone worth. It's like judging spaceports before they added trade routes.

You talked about guild bonuses and whatnot, such as involving fleet; well, all of that comes later. But in order to get guild bonuses in a reasonable manner, you need funds that a guild can use. That's what this is. You remember how people crapped themselves over my Retrofits thread, right? Saying that it was too much all at once? Well, Ferdoc's avoiding that issue by proposing each part in turn. Imagine if he had posted this along with five other threads of equal length, all in one thread. No one would even read it.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Hellion » Sat 01 Jan, 2011 15:38

Ribbentrop wrote:Hellion, the Guild Bank isn't a standalone idea. I'm assuming that the econ boosts are meant to provide a bonus to the player even before the guild gets going on projects, so that people will increase their donation amount at the beginning of the feature launch/new servers/etc. Remember, it will take time to build up a sum in the GB, which means that some players will balk, thus delaying the ability to do things with the GB. This is foundational for more of Ferdoc's ideas - some of which have been posted already - and as such shouldn't be judged by its standalone worth. It's like judging spaceports before they added trade routes.

You talked about guild bonuses and whatnot, such as involving fleet; well, all of that comes later. But in order to get guild bonuses in a reasonable manner, you need funds that a guild can use. That's what this is. You remember how people crapped themselves over my Retrofits thread, right? Saying that it was too much all at once? Well, Ferdoc's avoiding that issue by proposing each part in turn. Imagine if he had posted this along with five other threads of equal length, all in one thread. No one would even read it.
Though I wont go into much detail but it also heavily favors mass recruitment guilds as well while at the same time screwing the smaller guilds :/ because as it stands its more of a numbers game of who can get the most people to drop a certain % of their econ. If it was more of a average per member + total donated as in each level is based on average member donated for a certain total.

Lets say each level grew by as an example using a similar formula to structures lets say base numbers similar to current structures

1 1000 * members in guild
2 1500 * members in guild
3 2250 * members in guild
4 3375 * members in guild
5 5063 * members in guild
6 7594 * members in guild
7 11391 * members in guild
8 17086 * members in guild
9 25629 * members in guild
10 38444 * members in guild
11 57666 * members in guild
12 86498 * members in guild
13 129747 * members in guild
14 194620 * members in guild
15 291930 * members in guild
16 437894 * members in guild
17 656841 * members in guild
18 985262 * members in guild
19 1477892 * members in guild
20 2216838 * members in guild

So lets say if the guild average donation as a whole was 2250 (that means if it was a 100 members total donation would be 2,250,000) it would be level 3. Its more of a rough number to prove more of a point then present as actual numbers to replace his numbers. I think anything really different puts massive advantage to larger guilds as compared to what I just suggested which puts more emphasis on what each member contributes. Also all members dont need to contribute to the guild bank to achieve higher ranks its more so to calculate what is needed by the guild to achieve another rank.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Ferdoc » Sat 01 Jan, 2011 20:38

Hellion wrote: Though I wont go into much detail but it also heavily favors mass recruitment guilds as well while at the same time screwing the smaller guilds
If you're going to take that position and I've provided metrics for your to compare things with, by all means go into the details. Its very annoying to do a lot of work to find a sensible balance to these add ons. If you're going to say it heavily favors one group over another, please do the work and show it and not make mindless claims. If you want to continue doing it, understand I will start to ignore you even if you should ever come up with a reasonable and relevant issue
Hellion wrote: because as it stands its more of a numbers game of who can get the most people to drop a certain % of their econ.
That's the entire aspect of this game. Change out guild bank with 'production' and you have how AE is right now. Or change guild bank to factions, and you have blob warfare. The concept is nothing new or different. What it does do is splinter where base econ goes. The fact is this, the foundation of current gameplay, specifically the focus on fleet, uses this concept.


Hellion wrote: If it was more of a average per member + total donated as in each level is based on average member donated for a certain total.
Not being entertained.
Hellion wrote:Lets say each level grew by as an example using a similar formula to structures lets say base numbers similar to current structures

1 1000 * members in guild
2 1500 * members in guild
3 2250 * members in guild
4 3375 * members in guild
5 5063 * members in guild
6 7594 * members in guild
7 11391 * members in guild
8 17086 * members in guild
9 25629 * members in guild
10 38444 * members in guild
11 57666 * members in guild
12 86498 * members in guild
13 129747 * members in guild
14 194620 * members in guild
15 291930 * members in guild
16 437894 * members in guild
17 656841 * members in guild
18 985262 * members in guild
19 1477892 * members in guild
20 2216838 * members in guild
I have a strong feeling you didn't do anything beyond a customary look at what this would entail.
Hellion wrote:So lets say if the guild average donation as a whole was 2250 (that means if it was a 100 members total donation would be 2,250,000)
Which would require each person's econ to be 22,500. As there is a limit of 10% of base econ. Unless of course you want to flat out remove the base econ requirement.
Hellion wrote: it would be level 3.
Which presents a massive problem of how are guilds supposed to get any real benefit from this?

You would get SI3, UPB3 and TRDI3.

SI3 is just 3% faster from JGs.
TRDI3 is 600 further distance
UPB3 is 6% bonus to unique in guild Trade routes.

Oh yea, that's a real incentive to donate to the guild bank.

Hellion wrote:Its more of a rough number to prove more of a point then present as actual numbers to replace his numbers. I think anything really different puts massive advantage to larger guilds as compared to what I just suggested which puts more emphasis on what each member contributes. Also all members dont need to contribute to the guild bank to achieve higher ranks its more so to calculate what is needed by the guild to achieve another rank.
You haven't suggested anything to improve this idea. You've suggested a complete alteration to this idea. Now there are only two outcomes of note to your suggested change.

1 - Assuming you haven't gone crazy in assuming that guilds will have an average 22,500 econ to meet the 10%, you intend to remove the 10% cap. Which, amazingly enough, creates an environment where larger more powerful guilds are able to get massive bonuses within the Guild Bases and Guild Technology concepts. Which is what Guild Banks were developed in order to support. So you want to avoid having larger more powerful guilds from getting vastly better benefits faster by removing the cap that directly prevents them from doing so. It goes without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway, that flies in the face of your assertion.


2 - You misspoke with your numbers and intended to have 12,000 econ ( 1,200 donation ) as your numbers with 100 guild members. Which would put them at level 1 rewards. 1% faster, 200 distance and 2% unique partner bonus. That's not worth anything at all for that guild to put in, and the rewards / benefits from Guild Bases and Guild Technology are far off into the future that any such donation would be fruitless.


As a final note you ignore the concept of duration. The longer you work at something, at least in many games, the better you get at it or the more rewards you achieve. You also retain those rewards, again in many games, even if you should stop working at it. Your suggestion seems to run counter to that. Players are able to achieve only a specific value of benefits and never go above it. The highest econ player is 17,238. That player is able to achieve level 8 if they put everything they get from econ into your suggestion. 8% faster off JGs, 1,600 distance increase and 16% bonus. Should they be in a guild with anyone else they'll drop, and significantly. As you base your costs off of members, which gives and advantage to older and more established guilds. I base mine off time. An older, more established guild is able to achieve great things, a top guild can reach level 20 within 4 years of Guild Bank rewards, however it will take them another 4 years to reach 21. Assuming they keep all of their banked credits in the bank and didn't spend any on Guild Bases and Guild Technology. Medium sized guilds would take around 5.5 to 6.5 years, if I remember my number correctly, to reach level 20. 1.5 to 2.5 years behind a larger, powerful guild is hardly a huge handicap.

In short if you're going to try and change the basic fundamentals of an idea, please don't use 'rough numbers' present something that's finished and balanced. Also take into consideration what is being attempted by the idea. I'm trying to create a stable and useful foundation for other ideas. You're creating a single concept that has no ability to support other aspects, let alone itself.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Hellion » Sun 02 Jan, 2011 05:11

@ferdoc

no you pretty much mistook the majority of my post. I posted it after studying for like the 7-8 hours before that so meh :P.

Anyways no that was for calculation the X amount * members to determine what the guild as a whole would of had to donate upto that point for it to achieve a certain goal. It simply takes the advantage out of the hands of simply having tons of members but over time what the average member has donated will benefit the guild more. I presumed at least slightly that over time this would be added together as in if I donate 10% for 3 hours and had 10k econ then it would go towards the bank as 3000 donated and 24000 over 24 hours donated per day.

The multiplier I spoke of would be more in the area that average members matter because lets compare 2 real simple numbers

1,000 * guildmembers

1,000 * 10 members = 10,000 ..... so a 10 member guild would require a donation of 10,000 to get to this tier
1,000 * 100 members = 100,000 ..... so a 100 member guild would require a donation of 100,000 to get to this same tier.

So it becomes what the average member is donating as compared to number of recruits.

Now this my statement isnt saying that the entire guild has to donate X% to still get same perks but rather its to calc what is required by the guild as a whole. So the 100,000 required by the 100 person guild could still get the 100,000 by only 20 people donating it just takes longer.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Ferdoc » Sun 02 Jan, 2011 06:33

I hardly mistook your premise Hellion. Your suggestion effectively guts the concept. To have a time focused reward factor to encourage guilds to donate and grow the guild bank before taking up the future additions that are based off it.

Also, you have yet to substantiate your critical claim. That this idea overly benefits larger and more powerful guilds. If I were you, I'ld focus your time and effort posting here to actually substantiate that claim.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby -Link- » Sun 02 Jan, 2011 14:36

its an unavoidable fact that the big and powerful will be able to use things better then smaller players. lets try not to dwell on that fact as that can be used against pretty much every idea that does come up

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Hellion » Sun 02 Jan, 2011 14:45

Ferdoc wrote:I hardly mistook your premise Hellion. Your suggestion effectively guts the concept. To have a time focused reward factor to encourage guilds to donate and grow the guild bank before taking up the future additions that are based off it.

Also, you have yet to substantiate your critical claim. That this idea overly benefits larger and more powerful guilds. If I were you, I'ld focus your time and effort posting here to actually substantiate that claim.
I half way figured it was explained at least twice now.

I will spell it out much more simple this time to hopefully make it the easiest possible post to understand :bleh:

Bank account (the thing u posted) grows with the player... as in lets say you have 1 mil to your name as far as bank account goes.

Now lets use your example of explaining how this works which was the 350 million needed in that example.

We now are going to take that 350 million and compare it to 2 different guilds one being 10 members in size and one being 100 members in size. One would require 35 mil in each players personal account to get the benefit as the 100 member guild having an average of 3.5 mil.

Generally what most would say is the two guilds if both contribute on average 3.5 mil per each should get a roughly fair return on said investment. This however is very far from that and would be massively more useful in the hands of much larger guilds member wise.

So besides the fact I dislike the main part of the idea as is I think if it were to be brought into place as is this would heavily favor large guilds and further push people into certain types of game play which is be in a big guild. However figured the best idea is to work towards working out the biggest problems just incase it did actually get added the numbers needed would screw quite a few guilds.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Callisto » Sun 02 Jan, 2011 18:31

-Link- wrote:its an unavoidable fact that the big and powerful will be able to use things better then smaller players. lets try not to dwell on that fact as that can be used against pretty much every idea that does come up
Isnt it like that always?


@Ferdoc
Few questions
After you deposit credits (the 10% of your hourly income) will they be possible to withdraw anytime? or will there be a 24 hours penalty or something? (i dont think i saw the answer inside, sorry if its in)

About the travel between guild bases, will there be in the units on the empire tab the speed of the guild bank modification?

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Winchester » Sun 02 Jan, 2011 21:58

Callisto wrote:
-Link- wrote:its an unavoidable fact that the big and powerful will be able to use things better then smaller players. lets try not to dwell on that fact as that can be used against pretty much every idea that does come up
Isnt it like that always?


@Ferdoc
Few questions
After you deposit credits (the 10% of your hourly income) will they be possible to withdraw anytime? or will there be a 24 hours penalty or something? (i dont think i saw the answer inside, sorry if its in)

About the travel between guild bases, will there be in the units on the empire tab the speed of the guild bank modification?
From what I recall of discussing it with Ferdoc, you can never withdraw the credits you put in. It's just like tech - once the money's gone, it's gone forever, and your account will never decrease because of it. Otherwise, this idea just becomes a way to bank credits in the personal sense.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Ferdoc » Mon 03 Jan, 2011 02:57

Hellion wrote: I half way figured it was explained at least twice now.
You've explained nothing. You've told me there is an issue with the idea, without actually proving it. You presented 'rough numbers' with little testing done behind them let alone and understanding of what this idea is trying to accomplish. Your suggestion, as it stands, benefits larger more powerful guilds, as your own numbers removed the 10% cap. Oh, wait you want to keep the 10% cap, which flies in the face of your initial presented numbers. You've explained it twice and contradicted yourself on the basic mechanics of it. So explaining it more doesn't help, explain it in detail and consistently
Hellion wrote:I will spell it out much more simple this time to hopefully make it the easiest possible post to understand
Sounds good. Lets try and get a baseline of your suggested change out with you want to have done. First off, lets have you provide proof that this idea overly benefits larger more powerful guilds.
Hellion wrote:Bank account (the thing u posted) grows with the player... as in lets say you have 1 mil to your name as far as bank account goes.
That's correct.
Hellion wrote:Now lets use your example of explaining how this works which was the 350 million needed in that example.

We now are going to take that 350 million and compare it to 2 different guilds one being 10 members in size and one being 100 members in size. One would require 35 mil in each players personal account to get the benefit as the 100 member guild having an average of 3.5 mil.
Problem 1. It would require 350 million total. Not 35 million in each player's personal account. Now, this is a red herring. You're trying to use the 10 person guild as a reason why this idea is bad. A 10 person guild can not compete with a 100 person guild, with certain exceptions. Its silly to try and change an idea to be 'fair' to everyone, as you seem to be wanting to do, when that 'fairness' penalizes larger organized guilds. Why should a 10 member guild be able to garner massive benefits far quicker and with less effort than a large guild based SOLELY on the size of the guild?

Hellion wrote:Generally what most would say
[Citation Needed]
Hellion wrote:Generally what most would say is the two guilds if both contribute on average 3.5 mil per each should get a roughly fair return on said investment. This however is very far from that and would be massively more useful in the hands of much larger guilds member wise.
Why? It punishes larger guilds just for being large. You haven't shown any reason beyond saying 'its not fair', or something to that ilk. All ideas will benefit larger guilds, period. To introduce a significant change to the idea that inherently punishes them merely because of some sort of perceived biased within the foundation of the idea is intellectual dishonesty to the highest degree. I expected far more from you. I was anticipating assertions and validations. Not wild allegations followed up by empty claims.
Hellion wrote:So besides the fact I dislike the main part of the idea
You dislike setting a foundation for future concepts to be built upon?
Hellion wrote:So besides the fact I dislike the main part of the idea as is I think if it were to be brought into place as is this would heavily favor large guilds and further push people into certain types of game play which is be in a big guild. However figured the best idea is to work towards working out the biggest problems just in case it did actually get added the numbers needed would screw quite a few guilds.

Again, with the wild assertions. Please prove to use it would heavily favor large guilds.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Zoran » Mon 03 Jan, 2011 18:55

Hellion, stop arguing with the OP, calling someone ignorant does not add to the conversation at all, it simply makes the poster mad. So its baiting in all actuality.

Ferdoc; stop being difficult. Calling for proof over and over again is not adding to the conversation, it is degrading its' effectiveness because even if they posted enough evidence, you would still disclaim it.

I've had enough of this. Do not quote me; do not pm me. Continue from this post on the topic at hand and stop bickering both of you or I'll revoke your posting rights for this board. :neutral2:

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Cabbage » Mon 03 Jan, 2011 20:56

I like it a lot Ferdoc.

Having read the entire thing ... I would like to see this implemented eventually.

It might drastically change all the servers and reduce stagnation on the servers as well, since it involves players to be more active to maintain their production queues since a % of their natural Economy is donated to the guild "bank".

The one thing I would like to see implemented into your guild bank feature are more options to choose from (instead of Economy vs Speed).

I know they are most likely going to abusable (anything apart from Economy / Speed) but I can see many guilds forcing players to donate a % of their income.

It would be nice to see the % being adjustable between 1% - > 15% instead of just 10%.

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Re: Guild Bank

Postby Narth Vader » Mon 03 Jan, 2011 21:06

My only qualm with this idea is that it makes the big guilds more powerful. Now where I come from, when there's a server war, that means that two massive guilds or blocs will sit on a jumpgate and blob until they can find an opportunity. In fact, most of the players are hardly active in those guilds. They'll follow fleet deployments to give the illusion of a great big blob.

And to me, this doesn't quite seem to help make big guilds any more active. And activity may not be the intended goal. But I figure that these benefits will just lead the big guilds to sim harder and blob more. Can the speed bonuses applied onto a high level JG with a high level Log commander really make enough of a difference if you're trying to raid a fortress? Or the speed bonus applied to wormholes?

While I like making trades more profitable, that certainly means a stronger economy and closes the gap between econ and prod. But after a certain point, do we particularly need that econ boost?

It doesn't really seem like the idea will contribute anything that will get players active, and I'm playing on a giant sim server where I only see this making the simming worse. And sure, you can play the game how you want, but not when you drag half the server into your blob war.

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