Wormhole Abuse

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albend
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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby albend » Wed 06 Apr, 2011 15:29

I see no problem with WH, and I believe the flaws your attempting to address arent flaws but just facets of the strategies revolving around them. I dont think removing strategies in a game people complaining is stagnating is really going to improve server population or gameplay.

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I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby Carnage 101 » Thu 07 Apr, 2011 07:18

Make WH visible to everybody whether base is present or not. Issue solved.

-No one will need to build next to it

-Those who legitimately want to build can.

Except for speed to destination WH provide no real advantage. It used to be speed with stealth because the enemy if not vigilant would not notice your landing until it was too late. Now every major guild has eyes in the form of a base next to it and 12 hrs is sufficient to make a phone call and tell your friend to scram.

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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby Rayy » Thu 07 Apr, 2011 21:39

Carnage 101 wrote:Make WH visible to everybody whether base is present or not. Issue solved.

-No one will need to build next to it

-Those who legitimately want to build can.

Except for speed to destination WH provide no real advantage. It used to be speed with stealth because the enemy if not vigilant would not notice your landing until it was too late. Now every major guild has eyes in the form of a base next to it and 12 hrs is sufficient to make a phone call and tell your friend to scram.


except this isn't an issue and removes the tactical advantage you can gain by building a base next to it, people are wanting to "solve" it because of a select few cheaters. And wormholes don't just have a speed advantage

cactuschewer wrote:Traps r good
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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby TheDonut » Wed 11 May, 2011 02:02

I think this thread is assuming that wormholes are overpowered. This stems from larger guilds farming smaller guilds. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the wormhole mechanic, or any player strategy for permanent vision in a wormhole system. I think the issue is the gap between the top tier of the server, and the tertiary guilds fighting for subsistence U.C.'s and amongst zerg fodder guilds.

If fleet caps are imposed, or fuel limitations are added, the mechanics surrounding the wormhole will work as intended.

TL;DR

WH's aren't broke as much as end-game diplomacy and server stagnation is.

Rep me if my advice helps you.
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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby Lite-Reborn » Thu 19 May, 2011 06:04

I don't really play anymore but.....

On newer servers every top guild multi's to put bases on new WH locations for eyes. The OP's idea would help alleviate this problem and barely impact legitimate players.

Additionally, damage-less Wh's are a mechanic that has allowed newer servers to create mega powerful guilds because of the ease of recall traps once a guild/alliance owns the WH network. If damage was re-introduced then the extremely quick build-up in power and eventual stagnation of a server would be drastically elongated in timescale if not eliminated entirely.

My perspective is as a past #1 guild GM on Helion and friends with multiple #1 guild GM's on other servers.
Last edited by Puck on Thu 19 May, 2011 16:21, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Editted potetntially offensive content.

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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby Winchester » Thu 19 May, 2011 17:07

Lite-Reborn wrote:I don't really play anymore but.....

On newer servers every top guild multi's to put bases on new WH locations for eyes. The OP's idea would help alleviate this problem and barely impact legitimate players.


[citation needed]

Also, please prove that the only people who do so are multis. If even one non-multi has reason to do so, then there is no reason to go with the OP's idea.

Additionally, damage-less Wh's are a mechanic that has allowed newer servers to create mega powerful guilds because of the ease of recall traps once a guild/alliance owns the WH network. If damage was re-introduced then the extremely quick build-up in power and eventual stagnation of a server would be drastically elongated in timescale if not eliminated entirely.


When wormholes had damage, they were never used. Reinstating damage makes them useless.

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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby Lite-Reborn » Thu 19 May, 2011 19:13

Ribbentrop wrote:Also, please prove that the only people who do so are multis. If even one non-multi has reason to do so, then there is no reason to go with the OP's idea.


Ribbentrop, I am merely presenting a factual statement that top level guilds on new servers use bases to keep permanent eyes. I don't really care all that much about this aspect of WH's, I mainly came into this thread because of discussion about damage-less wh's.


Ribbentrop wrote:Additionally, damage-less Wh's are a mechanic that has allowed newer servers to create mega powerful guilds because of the ease of recall traps once a guild/alliance owns the WH network. If damage was re-introduced then the extremely quick build-up in power and eventual stagnation of a server would be drastically elongated in timescale if not eliminated entirely.


Damaging WH's were used successfully on Gamma to recall trap a rank 4 guild. The amount of damage was worth taking when a recall trap was setup correctly. That said, traditional invasions and fights occurred all the time on new servers before the introduction of damage-less WH's.

If you believe damage-less WH's are instrumental for older servers then I would suggest a tiered approach. At the start of the server WH's are introduced following the traditional timeline, however they start with the old damage modifier. Over time the galaxy inhabitants as a whole gain a better technological understanding of WH's so the damage slowly decreases over the course of XX (1-2?) years. This provides the option for using a WH early if a recall trap can be setup, however it prevents mega-alliances from forming for the only purpose of controlling the galactic highway system.

I have no bone to pick in this discussion, I am only presenting my opinion and the opinions of the top guild leaders on all the new servers. We know why we are dominating so easily and so quickly, a large part of it is very early mass transportation at ludicrous speeds for free. If this can be delayed for new servers it would limit the rapid growth of mega-alliances and ultimate stagnation.

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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby Soundwave » Sun 22 May, 2011 23:50

Why not make WH to show up in ANY area of galaxy , not just in area where astros are?

This way , as most coordinates are only empty places , there will be impossible to colonize any astro. If Wormhole by any chance shows up in area with astros , then by all means , colonize them .

Is this possible to implement?

Quiting this *beep* game.

*beep* you all.
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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby Callisto » Mon 23 May, 2011 07:16

Soundwave wrote:Why not make WH to show up in ANY area of galaxy , not just in area where astros are?

This way , as most coordinates are only empty places , there will be impossible to colonize any astro. If Wormhole by any chance shows up in area with astros , then by all means , colonize them .

Is this possible to implement?


Because each wormhole is connected to another.
It can be easily learned and abused. If its possible, i dont know but i would say yes.

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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby Evil Wabbit » Fri 28 Oct, 2011 17:43

Merely some possibilities:

1) Reduce JG benefit of having a JG in a WH system to either 1/2 or 1/4 original speed.

2) Every two weeks move the WH to a new location within the galaxy. Every 3 months move the WH to a new galaxy.

3) Add a tiered damage system, the bigger the fleet, the more damage taken.
Example:
<1M fleet - .55% damage
1M but < 5M - .65% damage
5M but < 10M - .75% damage
10M but < 20M - .85% damage
20M but < 50M - .95% damage
50M+ - 1% damage

Fleet Size - - - - - - Damage Taken
750,000 - - - - - - - 4,125
4,000,000 - - - - - - 26,000
9,000,000 - - - - - - 67,500
17,500,000 - - - - - 148,750
45,000,000 - - - - - 427,500
90,000,000 - - - - - 900,000

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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby crusaderknight » Sun 04 Dec, 2011 04:39

Ribbentrop wrote:
Lite-Reborn wrote:I don't really play anymore but.....

On newer servers every top guild multi's to put bases on new WH locations for eyes. The OP's idea would help alleviate this problem and barely impact legitimate players.


[citation needed]

Also, please prove that the only people who do so are multis. If even one non-multi has reason to do so, then there is no reason to go with the OP's idea.


I don't have a multiple account and I build next to WH's for the betterment of the guild I belong to. I get stuff in return of course such as rewards and what not...:) But I also build next to them because I am ordered to do so. It's a personal choice. Yet I still strive to grow my account.

Thanks,
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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby Vietnamwees » Sun 04 Dec, 2011 12:28

Evil Wabbit wrote:Merely some possibilities:

1) Reduce JG benefit of having a JG in a WH system to either 1/2 or 1/4 original speed.

2) Every two weeks move the WH to a new location within the galaxy. Every 3 months move the WH to a new galaxy.

3) Add a tiered damage system, the bigger the fleet, the more damage taken.
Example:
<1M fleet - .55% damage
1M but < 5M - .65% damage
5M but < 10M - .75% damage
10M but < 20M - .85% damage
20M but < 50M - .95% damage
50M+ - 1% damage

Fleet Size - - - - - - Damage Taken
750,000 - - - - - - - 4,125
4,000,000 - - - - - - 26,000
9,000,000 - - - - - - 67,500
17,500,000 - - - - - 148,750
45,000,000 - - - - - 427,500
90,000,000 - - - - - 900,000


1)If a wormhole just so happens to appear in a system that someone already has an established JG, then they have effectively been screwed by the game and chance. I would be super-pissed if the wormhole randomly appeared in my JG system, and it nerfed my JG.

2)I don't personally have any problem with this.

3)People will break up their fleets to get around taking a higher amount of damage, in fact this would go hand in hand with doing a combat style launch. However, I don't really see the problem with people breaking up their fleets into smaller parts. Other than that, I have nothing to add about this point.


Honestly, the use of multis (though there is no proof), or just newer accounts to keep eyes on wormholes is a legitamate tactic and I see nothing wrong with it. Especially if the accounts are following all the rules set for shared IP addresses and all that (which they obviously are, or they would not exist or would be punished)

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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby Vietnamwees » Sun 04 Dec, 2011 12:41

Evil Wabbit wrote:Merely some possibilities:

1) Reduce JG benefit of having a JG in a WH system to either 1/2 or 1/4 original speed.

2) Every two weeks move the WH to a new location within the galaxy. Every 3 months move the WH to a new galaxy.

3) Add a tiered damage system, the bigger the fleet, the more damage taken.
Example:
<1M fleet - .55% damage
1M but < 5M - .65% damage
5M but < 10M - .75% damage
10M but < 20M - .85% damage
20M but < 50M - .95% damage
50M+ - 1% damage

Fleet Size - - - - - - Damage Taken
750,000 - - - - - - - 4,125
4,000,000 - - - - - - 26,000
9,000,000 - - - - - - 67,500
17,500,000 - - - - - 148,750
45,000,000 - - - - - 427,500
90,000,000 - - - - - 900,000


1)If the wormhole appears in a system where a player already had a decent JG, then that would screw the player while they essentially just wanted to create a JG somewhere. I would be very upset if the wormhole appeared in the same system as my JG that was there first and my JG got nerfed because of it.

2)I am not really opposed to this

3)People will simply break up their fleets into smaller parts when they use the wormhole to avoid larger damage penalties, but I personally don't see a problem with that.


Using multis(though there is no proof), or new accounts to keep eyes/JG near a wormhole is a legitimate strategy, especially if those accounts are following all the rules to prevent multis. Maybe moving the wormholes more frequently would be a good idea, but only to keep the game interesting, not necessarily to prevent "capturing" wormholes.

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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby Evil Wabbit » Thu 08 Dec, 2011 11:49

Vietnamwees wrote:1)If a wormhole just so happens to appear in a system that someone already has an established JG, then they have effectively been screwed by the game and chance. I would be super-pissed if the wormhole randomly appeared in my JG system, and it nerfed my JG.


Then change it so that if there is a base in-system already, it cannot spawn in that system.

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Re: Wormhole Abuse

Postby Ugborg » Thu 08 Dec, 2011 20:44

Fascinating, you could actually force a wormhole to spawn in the same system, every time. It would be difficult and require people working together, taking non-optimal bases, but it could be done.

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