Kappa Peace Talks: War or Peace?

[EmbraceTheHate]

It seems cooler heads have prevailed (for now) and hope might yet exist for KAPPA to survive long past what many said it would. The leaders of DDoS, WD and KAOS are in talks. Each Guild is hosting/has hosted each others' GMs along an additional representative as a witnesses to the debates. The talks inside WD between WD and DDOS, went surprisingly well, as did the talks with the KAOS representatives. Grievances/concerns were discussed as well as other issues both past and present. A consensus was reached during these talks and the true mindset of the WD LS/ Membership and KAOS LS/Membership was found to be rooted in common ground. There was an overwhelming majority in both guilds from those who chose to speak up that a wish for KAPPA to continue under a new system of some sort exists. The details are far from being decided on how we all would go about co-existing along side one another, but the mutually shared desire/willingness was impossible to deny.

WD does not want to see KAOS die. KAOS does not want to see WD die. What both sides want are change, hope, and a fair system to be implemented that will ensure the Server will continue on into the future.

(shortened for easier reading and "conjecture" removed)

I pray peace prevails but if not, no one would be able to say WD, KAOS (and some in DDOS LS) were not willing to work together for the sake of what thy hold dear - A future for Kappa.

So...what say you DDOS members? We all are wanting to know, and I am giving you the chance to speak up here and now for all to read, just what do you want for KAPPA? Will there be peace or will there be war?

(I also strongly encourage members of WD and KAOS to share their own views. Please lets keep this thread respectful and free of trolling. Much is at stake here for hundreds of players, and so I think this thread warrants as many serious respectful responses as it can get. To prevent this from being a Troll fest, I ask each person to only post once . No matter what - do not "reply" to the posts of another player. It takes two people for a troll fest to take place).

[KappaVet]

The server is old but that does not mean a select few should determine if it gets to live or die. The members of WD and KAOS have spoken in favor of keeping it alive. DDoS has often played "the good guys", the champions against tyranny and oppression. Time to hold true to yourselves and those in KAPPA you claim to call friends. If you will not do it for WD, then do it for those in KAOS who have made their wishes known. If you value what your friends want, then vote for peace. Prove to everyone in Kappa that DDOS truly are "the good guys". Prove that you have never turned against another guild. Help keep Kappa alive. Just because you can kill something does not mean you should. Whatever you decide, this moment will forever be remembered and will determine what history has to say about who the real DDoS is. You can create a legacy of honor and loyalty to current allies or you can be seen and remembered as the warmongers set out to destroy and dominate Kappa as some have long since believed you to be.

It will be interesting to see which path DDoS takes. I for one will be watching with growing anticipation.

[Quinar]

You know this is so one-sided it's almost too funny to read.

this is not where things should be discussed as forums are the most insanely trolled area of all of AE.

So that being said, you can't speak for Kaos anymore then you can Speak for WD, and have really no Idea what is going in Ddos.
It's all speculation and a way to come back and say see this or this happened.

So let's pull the punches and let things be, and see where it goes.

[Locuz]

just for the record: WD leadership has nothing to do with this.
we do encourage a healthy discussion about the situation, but personally i dont think the forums are the correct place for it

[Uncle Bill]

Months before Kappa opened, a council was formed on the premise that the seemingly endless cycle of "dead servers" could be broken. This council eventually became the core and foundation of DDoS.
Royals, Zerglings, call the enemy whatever you will, there was a definite mind-set NOT to become some newer version that would someday kill the server ourselves.

For a time we succeeded, I believe even now Kappa stands apart as something special. Perhaps we were even the first to break the Royal's winning streak, i'm not sure. Regretfully I was forced to be absent from AE during this "golden age" of Kappa.

The Kappa, and the DDoS, I returned to has a different flavor. Instead of SoT we had a recently broken pact and an enemy that seemed to have no shame at using those same tactics. Within DDoS an outrage I have seen fanned into roaring flame over the last 15 months. Few, even within the "old guard", now believe Kappa CAN be saved.

What happened? Where did we go wrong? Can we just treat the symptoms with an aspirin? Or is there a cancerous tumor that must be cut out before the patient can heal?
Let's return to that in a minute . . .

It should now (finally!) be clear to all that Huntress is no monster. She at least remembers the old code and ideals, and has never given up on that dream. By no means does she stand alone, but no other has the diplomatic skill outside AND the adoration within, to possibly make this work. But we few now stand before our own guild with our "necks in the noose" so to speak. Why? Because we want to believe!!!

Bow real low at the mere mention of Huntress and maybe, just MAYBE . . . WD and that dream of a living Kappa may yet survive.

It has been said that we must forget old indiscretions and rebuild trust and co-operation from scratch, I disagree. A patient does not recover by ignoring the cancer within. (Told you we would return to this )

I won't rehash the incident that broke the pact (I wasn't here remember), and we have all heard many versions of the story countless times over. Yet it has recently been admitted (in a backhanded fashion) that a very few withheld communications in order to proceed, some may even have engineered it days in advance INTENDING to start this war. This is blatant, unforgivable manipulation of everyone else on the server.

There is no hint of a reprimand . . .
no apology, from any of the culprits
or the GMs ultimately responsible for actions within their commands . . .
no reparations . . .
nothing at all with which to build a bridge.

So I say to WD:
Help us to help you!
If this fails there may well be a change of leadership in DDoS, one who will care less if the server lives or not.

[Evil Ant]

EmbraceTheHate Said

U are pathetic......This is not on DDoS.....U don't Put this on US....

This is All about IF WD can be TRUSTED in a new pact

WD FAILED the last PACtT

This is why TRUST of WD is the ONLY thing in Question

Other than your Dumb Arse post U made here EmbraceTheHate

[Sera]

I think EmbraceTheHate is a dumb name to have if you want to preach peace. Secondly, the fact you posted this piece of propaganda (based on hearsay information) without informing WD LS, or discussing it before hand with WD LS or our members, who both reacted strongly against it, is a good example of a deeper problem. Players acting without asking, not even informing LS what they plan to do (or only as an afterthought later on), but when it goes south, expecting LS to fix it.

Realize that if you pull this once, there’s a good chance trust can be repaired, but pull this over and over again, and there can be no trust at all. Because you make us look like fools or liars and not in control of the actions of our members.

Uncle Bill says GMs are ultimately responsible for actions within their commands. Yes, I agree to the extent that if you give the ok for an OP, or assign someone as your representative in a diplomatic mission, whatever comes of that is on your head. But as LS you can’t micro-manage the behavior of your players. If you want to fix that, it has to come from within. People have to be ready to change their mindset. As Huntress put it: go to a mindset of ‘when in doubt, don’t do it”, instead of “shoot first, and trust someone else will fix it for you later on” (talking about past LAP violations here).

Let me be 100% clear: WD LS, nor its members, want to see Kappa end. We don’t see KAOS or DDOS as an enemy that has to be destroyed and driven off the server. We want to co-exist and get to a system where activity is promoted. We don’t want to NAP all the guilds on Kappa. We want action, but action with a set of rules, that allows both small and large players to go out and hunt. And where people can store their fleet safely on their guild’s blob when they go offline.

Uncle Bill said:
There is no hint of a reprimand . . . I tell you when we get to an agreement, there will be.
no apology, from any of the culprits … you have mine, and I speak as gm for all players in WD.
or the GMs ultimately responsible for actions within their commands . . . if you think it with help get us to an agreement, I’ll take responsibility and resign as gm.

no reparations . . .
nothing at all with which to build a bridge.

I will one-sided offer you this as a start:

*We’ll reduce the fleet on all DDoS occupations to 1 FT. If the owner frees himself, we’ll leave it alone until it’s econ is back to 100%.
*We won’t hit KAOS anywhere; exception being if the owner of an occupied base wants to free himself, killing scouts & outpost ships will ofc continue

Finally, to reply to Uncle Bill’s cancer anecdote. Surgically removing a tumor won’t guarantee you’ll be cancer free afterwards. Consider gene therapy instead. Have the body’s T-cells attack the cancer cells and act as a vaccine afterwards to prevent it from coming back. Change the mindset by open communications and talking thinks out. Going in with a knife imo is not the best solution to Kappa's problem.

[EmbraceTheHate]

I think EmbraceTheHate is a dumb name to have if you want to preach peace. Secondly, the fact you posted this piece of propaganda (based on hearsay information)

Propaganda? Hearsay? Interesting. I guess every post on the WD boards from KAOS and DDOS were lies then. Seeing as I have given the account to Serafim i am free to speak up. I did not post a single lie, nor a single bit of propaganda. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. I suggested to WD LS as a last ditched effort to advert disaster for Julie come to WD to talk. That idea was expanded to include Zak, and then it carried over for WD to reciprocate the move by going to DDOS and KAOS.
They did. The crash was adverted. Say what you want. Interpret my moves in whatever way makes you sleep better or somehow shines your side in a favorable politically correct light. My goal was achieved. Peace instead of war. Talks instead of a crash. No matter what happens after this, or doesnt happen, it was my suggestion that prevented Armageddon if only for a little while. Serafim sent the invite, but it was me who placed the thought into the minds of the WD leadership. Good luck to you all, you have many hurdles to overcome. Love me or hate me. When all is said and done in the end, all that does matter is the truth is now out there for all to read and it wont go away so long as these boards exist.

- Paul

[Evil Ant]

Bubba can U please admit and explain your inappropriate behave in WD today....

Please let AE know of your meltdown and handing over your account to WD leadership

[Uncle Bill]

Finally, to reply to Uncle Bill’s cancer anecdote. Surgically removing a tumor won’t guarantee you’ll be cancer free afterwards. Consider gene therapy instead. Have the body’s T-cells attack the cancer cells and act as a vaccine afterwards to prevent it from coming back. Change the mindset by open communications and talking thinks out. Going in with a knife imo is not the best solution to Kappa's problem.

I like this and agree.
To expand the analogy a little further I suggest that if the liver can be persuaded to expel or isolate the disease within, then the liver becomes stronger, not weaker. And then the whole of the Kappa body can recover.
Of course such a treatment needs to apply to the whole body, cancer cells tend to migrate
At that point the analogy fails, the server is not a coordinated organism and the guilds must be self governing.

Noting that this may be ongoing even as I write this, if so I wish you the best of luck!!

Uncle Bill said:
There is no hint of a reprimand . . . I tell you when we get to an agreement, there will be.
no apology, from any of the culprits … you have mine, and I speak as gm for all players in WD.
or the GMs ultimately responsible for actions within their commands . . . if you think it with help get us to an agreement, I’ll take responsibility and resign as gm.

Your apology is well noted, appreciated, and will be remembered. It is exactly what was asked for on the next line. As for your resignation, no, I do not see how a major change of leadership in ANY of the three guilds is conducive to the stability of the server.
As for how there is still no agreement, after 15 months of investigation and revelations, as to who the guilty parties are . . . I find this very perplexing . . . I must be misunderstanding your meaning.

But we DO have a start, and I am ever more hopeful the dream may yet live.
Your other offer is also well noted and I am sure DDoS will also offer some reciprocation until more permanent agreements can be made.

Beyond this I must retro-actively agree with Locuz and others that the forum is the wrong venue for such discussion. I merely felt compelled to balance the post that started this thread.

[EmbraceTheHate]

You find this perplexing? You mean you have not swallowed the little blue pill and entered the matrix? Well let me enlighten you to a few FACTS.

Fact #1: A Serve Wide Nap was in place. DDoS violated this NAP when they fired upon and killed millions of WD fleets that were in route to a 56day old inactive located inside the 20s.

Fact #2: PMs were sent to some WD players warning them to recall, but not a single PM was sent to WD LS, some of which were online at the time (Gee, I wonder why?)

Fact #3: A lie was fabricated by DDoS LS to which they informed WD LS the attacks happened while DDOS LS was offline, DDoS LS lied when they told WD LS they had no knowledge of the event until after it started and was by then too late for DDoS LS to stop the attacks.

Fact #4: Purifier was the one who gave the order to attack the WD fleets, including even those who were finally told to recall, those in recall were Trapped and destroyed along with nearly all the other WD fleets.
(Conjecture: This fact would have exposed the actions of DDoS at the time,and so it wasnt until Puri was gone the truth came out. This allowed DDoS to lay the blame on someone who is no longer around to either defend or deny the accusation - how convenient!)

Fact #5: WD leadership considered this an intentional violation of the KAPPA PACT NAP, and ordered retaliation. DDoS bases were hit, resulting in the loss of hundreds of thousands of DDOS Fleet - which did not even come close to the losses suffered by the WD side.

Fact #6: To this day DDoS claims they did not violate the NAP, or the KAPPA Pact and instead blames WD for everything that happened on that day.

Fact #7: DDoS continues to refuse to accept ANY responsibility for this war, and demands WD apologize for retaliating on the attacks WD suffered that day.

Fact #8: DdoS continues to hunt, farm, harass, attack, and invade WD whenever they see fit, fully believing WD are the ones who can not be trusted inspite of the Fact WD never once attacked or fired upon DDOS during the time the KAPPA PACT NAP was in place.

Opinion: DDoS is so full of its own BS that they can not believe anything that would even remotely allude to the fact they are the ones who started this war. Their mindset of always being right continues to poison everything they do and have done since they started this war by attacking WD fleets while a Server Wide NAP was in place.. The self righteous attitude and belief system even when they are in the wrong, is maintained by finding some way to justify their actions so that they come out of every situation being the ones who were the victims or the ones who were acting well within their rights to behave as they did, regardless of what the facts say otherwise. This will never change, because DDoS has portrayed themselves to be the only guild on Kappa who would never, and has never ever done anything that could be considered wrong, when in reality the only thing they are wrong about is how right they are.

This new era of peace will fail eventually because DDoS will inevitably find a way to act that is inappropriate to the other guilds in Kappa, and when they do, they will simply justify their actions with some new means of placing the blame on others so that their reputation remains untarnished. In this regard DDoS is by far more sinister and dangerous than SoT ever was. At least SoT was upfront about who they are and what they wanted. DDoS on the other hand would have you believe everything they do is right, so long as its whats best for DDOS, and if you disagree, then you are simply wrong, because DDoS can never be wrong so long as they merely believe themselves to be right, and the facts be damned.

Mods lock this thread because trying to convince DDoS of the errors of their ways is like telling a fish swimming in water to stop breathing.

[Evil Ant]

So What About the Meltdown and inappropriate behavior Bubba.....Do I have to post it here for all to see

[Wlerin]

Mods lock this thread...

Typical.

... like telling a fish swimming in water to stop breathing.

... You might want to think through that metaphor a bit more, "Bubba".

[ShadowStalkerz]

Typical but effective none the less.