May 2014 FMR review - combining servers

[Whis]

In the third instalment of FMR reviews, we will be discussing combining servers.

I have always been intrigued by the idea and have seen ideas on how it could be done. Let's make a good effort and put together the most comprehensive thread on combining servers to date.

As before:
A few simple rules:

1). Any derailment of a thread will be considered spam and treated as such.

2). Don't debate someone's ability to add input, debate the topics. If this happens I will consider it spam and treat it as such.

3). Don't just link an old thread; if you link a thread, be sure to give a description of the arguments, both pro and con. The more thorough the better.

[Ferdoc]

First and foremost this is a physical impossibility as stated by Wizard in the past. So unless Wizard or Mike comes forward to state there is a possibility of it occurring this idea is dead in the water.

[Wlerin]

It's never impossible, Ferdoc. Anything (requiring code) can be done, just a question of whether it's worth the effort (there may be quite a bit of effort required).

Code issues aside I really don't see why anyone would want this. Well, aside from Arnie Rimmer & co. wanting to challenge the Royals with fleet from 8 servers ago.

[Firefox]

I got an account in server A, and an account in server B. Suddenly they merge. I'm now multi-man! Able to leap through servers in a single ISP!

In case some don't get it, that was sarcasm.

[Rajam]

I think that server merges are going to become mandatory at some point. Some of the less populated servers will either need an infusion of players or be retired as they decline in popularity.

The easiest solution is to allow people to transfer account Tech & Fleet between servers. These are two things that are player specific and have relatively little impact on other players. Since tech is soft capped and fleet is about to be the impact on new servers will be relatively minor. If you were over the fleet cap then you couldn't bring over more than the cap.

Another option is to allow your account Tech only to be shared across all servers.

You could offer a paid service where everything you own is transferred, astro's and all. When the exact same planet in the same system isn't available you are given a comparable one. ie. Crater/Planet X12:34:76:20 is what you currently own. The closest matching Crater/Planet is X12:34:44:20. You would search the region your currently in for the exact same match. If nothing was available in the destination region you could go clockwise starting at 12:00 until you found the exact match. This would be in concentric rings. Obviously this would pose a problem for hidden astros but that might be the price you pay for moving. This would be tedium on the dev's part(Matching everything up), which i why it would be a paid service, but it could be done.

I had more here but when you start getting into the complexities it really becomes tough.

[Dr Rush]

Keeping in mind that the astro distribution is completely different between servers. Where one has a rocky planet another will have a tundra & another nothing at all. That leaves four palatable options for map layout;

1. Add all of server Y's clusters onto the end server X's clusters, in the same manner that new clusters are added to an existing server. Leaving the new server with the same layout as a normal server but twice the number of clusters.

Pro's;
-Comparitavly simple
-Hidden JGs remain hidden
-Astros retain the same cords
-Would be difficult to bottle neck traffic between the two servers.

Con's;
-Leave's a sever astro density problem


2. Connect server X's uppers to server Y's lowers & Y's uppers to X's lowers. Forming a figure-8 pattern.

Pro's;
-Hidden JGs remain hidden
-Astros retain the same cords

Con's;
-Leave's a sever astro density problem
-Allow's for rather OP trade routes
-Traffic between the servers could easily be bottlenecked


3. Add another layer to the map system. With the servers being related & traveled between in same manner as clusters are currently.

Pro's;
-Hidden JGs remain hidden
-Astros retain the same cords
-Strongholds remain strongholds

Con's;
-Complicated
-Leave's a sever astro density problem
-Allow's for rather OP trade routes
-Requires at least 3 servers to work


4. All of Y's occupied astros are put in their corresponding systems on X. If the system doesn't exist it is created. If the slot is already occupied on X then the Y astro is placed directly under it's X counterpart in the same system. All Y astro retain their Y headed cords.

Pro's;
-Mostly fixes the astro density problem
-Cords remain the same

Con's;
-Horrendously complicated to code I'm sure
-What's a stronghold?
-Hidden JG's may no longer be hidden
-Results in multiple planets occupying the same slot in a given system.

[Rajam]

You know, after reading your post wouldn't it be easiest to just take server A and add it to the last opened cluster of server B? You could foreseeably link every server in the game this way. You would have galaxy X400:12:34:56 but......

The biggest inconvenience would be that the people placed wherever the upper galaxy was wouldn't be at the end of the line any more but that would limit the inconvenience to the smallest number of people.

[Dr Rush]

That would be what I listed as option 1. Though my preference is for option 3.

[Rajam]

Oh, sorry, didn't read it that way but your right.

[Ron Burgandy]

Straight from this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=109308" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Because this is a very popular request and someday something must be done to avoid <100 players on a server, this is what we possible can do:

Exodus Escape Option:
Through a global ID the player would initiate an escape to another universe. during the travel he will have limit space for the voyage so its impossible to move all bases/fleets to another universe but it will be possible to safe a big part of the player empire.
Players who activate this options will have their empire on the old universe terminated.
The old universe would then collapse once the players were moved voluntarily.


PS: this is just a personal opinion and there are currently no plans to do this.

So yes, a developer has thought about the concept being implemented.

My idea in the thread:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=109308&start=15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While reading Mike's idea and the responses following, I got an idea that may be workable:

Each server with 500 members or less, or as soon as a server reaches 500 members, a server is effectively shut down. The players in the server continue to be able to go on as normal hitting each other and NPC's; however, a mass email goes out to all accts and they are given the choice to move to a new server. 

Once the old server reaches 100 members, all existing accts are relocated to the lowers X00 to X09. This would put 10 players per galaxy; with an average of 20 bases each, that would be 200 bases per galaxy. All bases keep their structures and are relocated to Astros with the same metal and crystal stats. (these are stats not currently changeable with techs) Energy stats are not necessarily kept during the switch. To offset this, a three month lift of the limitations of terraforms and multilevel platforms will allow a player to add the extra space for the needed energy structures. (if a base ends up with negative energy, the base is treated as having no available energy until a positive number is true) For trades, the distances are multiplied by 2.5 (trades within the same galaxy are distance of 500, three galaxies away are 1500 and nine galaxies away are 4500. Travel distance is not changed. Once a player deletes or becomes inactive, his bases turn UC as normal, but one base at random becomes Drekon (will help provide a decent target for remaining players.)

Two options for a player to move:
1) Maximum of 100million fleet, quarter of credits in the bank, 2/3 of bases relocated in the manner described above for players staying in their old server(bases chosen by player, round up to nearest whole number), all research/construction credits banked, half of credits of prod from bases not relocated, all tech, all queues relocated with bases that are relocated (research currently going on base with links is completed as it would with all links, rest of the queues are completed as it should based on the new research cap.) 

2) Maximum of 150 million fleet, half of credits in bank, all bases relocated in the manner described above for players  staying in their old server, all queues moved with bases.

Option 1 is free, option 2 is the cost of a six month upgrade (idea thanks to DS)

People with accounts in multiple servers only get to move one acct to new server, other accts can continue on in old server.

New server, for the purpose of the example, will be referred to as server X. 

Server X is opened like a new server, old accts are moved to the new server sequentially until a galaxy is "full" then another galaxy opens. 500 people should easily fit in two clusters, max of 5 bases per region?(mental math)

When a new server is moved, two more galaxy clusters are opened up, but travel into the new clusters isn't possible for 30 days (or whatever the time limit is for new servers, cannot remember off the top of my head)

To help prevent the same ending that the old servers will inevitably suffer, a few changes need made:
Max blob sizes (would need help with finalizing an idea)
Max guild sizes lowered (50)
Wormholes need damage reapplied

Lots of good discussion in that thread

[Beets]

3. Add another layer to the map system. With the servers being related & traveled between in same manner as clusters are currently.

Pro's;
-Hidden JGs remain hidden
-Astros retain the same cords
-Strongholds remain strongholds

Con's;
-Complicated
-Leave's a sever astro density problem
-Allow's for rather OP trade routes
-Requires at least 3 servers to work

I like this one. I can't weigh in on the complications as I don't understand how the game is coded and hosted. Conceptually it's easy. The distance between clusters is always 2K, and it's the same here. No bases are moved, and the max trade distance is still 5,600 - so no fundamental changes to econ. I'm not sure Dr Rush and I see this the same way, so I'll elaborate.

Currently the galaxy changes shape depending on what cluster you're currently in. For example if you're in the 40's it looks like this:

Code: Select all

 A00 	A10	A20	A30	
 A01 	A11	A21	A31	
 A02 	A12	A22	A32	
 A03 	A13	A23	A33	
 A04 	A14	A24	A34	
 A05 	A15	A25	A35	
 A06 	A16	A26	A36	
 A07 	A17	A27	A37	
 A08 	A18	A28	A38	
 A09 	A19	A29	A39	
				
				
				
				
				
				
				
				
				
				
A40				
A41				
A42				
A43				
A44				
A45				
A46				
A47				
A48				
A49				
				
				
				
				
				
				
				
				
				
				
A50	A60	A70	A80	A90
A51	A61	A71	A81	A91
A52	A62	A72	A82	A92
A53	A63	A73	A83	A93
A54	A64	A74	A84	A94
A55	A65	A75	A85	A95
A56	A66	A76	A86	A96
A57	A67	A77	A87	A97
A58	A68	A78	A88	A98
A59	A69	A79	A89	A99

The distance from one line of text to the next is 200, and a player can only travel up and down, not left and right. When they move clusters, the shape of the galaxy changes. From the A0x cluster it looks like this:

Code: Select all

 A00 								
 A01 								
 A02 								
 A03 								
 A04 								
 A05 								
 A06 								
 A07 								
 A08 								
 A09 								
								
								
								
								
								
								
								
								
								
								
A10	A20	A30	A40	A50	A60	A70	A80	A90
A11	A21	A31	A41	A51	A61	A71	A81	A91
A12	A22	A32	A42	A52	A62	A72	A82	A92
A13	A23	A33	A43	A53	A63	A73	A83	A93
A14	A24	A34	A44	A54	A64	A74	A84	A94
A15	A25	A35	A45	A55	A65	A75	A85	A95
A16	A26	A36	A46	A56	A66	A76	A86	A96
A17	A27	A37	A47	A57	A67	A77	A87	A97
A18	A28	A38	A48	A58	A68	A78	A88	A98
A19	A29	A39	A49	A59	A69	A79	A89	A99

If we added another server we could shape it like so, and all the trades, and movement methods would remain the same:

Code: Select all

 A00 	A10	A20	A30	 B00 	 B10 	 B20 	 B30 	
 A01 	A11	A21	A31	 B01 	 B11 	 B21 	 B31 	
 A02 	A12	A22	A32	 B02 	 B12 	 B22 	 B32 	
 A03 	A13	A23	A33	 B03 	 B13 	 B23 	 B33 	
 A04 	A14	A24	A34	 B04 	 B14 	 B24 	 B34 	
 A05 	A15	A25	A35	 B05 	 B15 	 B25 	 B35 	
 A06 	A16	A26	A36	 B06 	 B16 	 B26 	 B36 	
 A07 	A17	A27	A37	 B07 	 B17 	 B27 	 B37 	
 A08 	A18	A28	A38	 B08 	 B18 	 B28 	 B38 	
 A09 	A19	A29	A39	 B09 	 B19 	 B29 	 B39 	
								
								
								
								
								
								
								
								
								
								
A40								
A41								
A42								
A43								
A44								
A45								
A46								
A47								
A48								
A49								
								
								
								
								
								
								
								
								
								
								
A50	A60	A70	A80	A90	 B40 	 B50 	 B60 	 B70 
A51	A61	A71	A81	A91	 B41 	 B51 	 B61 	 B71 
A52	A62	A72	A82	A92	 B42 	 B52 	 B62 	 B72 
A53	A63	A73	A83	A93	 B43 	 B53 	 B63 	 B73 
A54	A64	A74	A84	A94	 B44 	 B54 	 B64 	 B74 
A55	A65	A75	A85	A95	 B45 	 B55 	 B65 	 B75 
A56	A66	A76	A86	A96	 B46 	 B56 	 B66 	 B76 
A57	A67	A77	A87	A97	 B47 	 B57 	 B67 	 B77 
A58	A68	A78	A88	A98	 B48 	 B58 	 B68 	 B78 
A59	A69	A79	A89	A99	 B49 	 B59 	 B69 	 B79 

Imho, the difficulty in merging servers comes with the politics and what to do when a player has accounts on both servers. If a set of players has Ixion and Juno won, what really happens when they're merged? Looks like more of the same to me. What do you do with the multiple accounts?

A really good option is just to leave it how it is. If a server dies, then it does. It becomes a new playground for anybody who wants it.

Another option is to put end dates on servers. The drawback for this is a server like Alpha that's still vibrant after all this time could be cut short when there is still a good story left to unfold.

A good option is to make victory conditions for a server. If 66% of the fleet in a server can be assembled into one guild (minimum 1 Billion fleet so you can't win with a single CV), the server is won. The winners get a badge on their account when the server restarts. I really like this one.

The point I'm making here is not to start a new, off-topic discussion. It's that the topic of "how to merge servers" might have the answer of "you don't" because there may be better solutions to the perceived problem of low activity on old servers.

[SilverKnight]

I think that server merges are going to become mandatory at some point. Some of the less populated servers will either need an infusion of players or be retired as they decline in popularity.

The easiest solution is to allow people to transfer account Tech & Fleet between servers. These are two things that are player specific and have relatively little impact on other players. Since tech is soft capped and fleet is about to be the impact on new servers will be relatively minor. If you were over the fleet cap then you couldn't bring over more than the cap.

Another option is to allow your account Tech only to be shared across all servers.

You could offer a paid service where everything you own is transferred, astro's and all. When the exact same planet in the same system isn't available you are given a comparable one. ie. Crater/Planet X12:34:76:20 is what you currently own. The closest matching Crater/Planet is X12:34:44:20. You would search the region your currently in for the exact same match. If nothing was available in the destination region you could go clockwise starting at 12:00 until you found the exact match. This would be in concentric rings. Obviously this would pose a problem for hidden astros but that might be the price you pay for moving. This would be tedium on the dev's part(Matching everything up), which i why it would be a paid service, but it could be done.

I had more here but when you start getting into the complexities it really becomes tough.

I think we should consider this question : how low of server population is required to trigger the need to merge it? I would contend fewer than 500 active players. That way 2 full sized guilds ... less than that, merge it with another server with similar, to get the threshold of at least 500 active players.

[Ferdoc]

And if a person has an account on both servers what do you do then? The obvious answer is force them to select between the two. But then you have just negated possibly years of work of a player. If we do the 250 on each server and there is a 40% population overlap then you're not going to hit 500 active players. You're going to end up 100 players shy of being at 500.

The standard checks won't work either. IP address checks? Could have 2 people at the same IP play 2 different servers to not be forced to pay for the game. Now one gets to keep playing while the other has to quit or they are now forced to pay up. Even working in a way to allow players under such a situation to continue playing without paying comes into a problem, do you do that with E-mail address checks? Not bloody likely to work. I use a different e-mail for each of the servers I play. Should those 3 servers somehow combine I would have 3 accounts I could potentially run should we allow those who live with players who play different servers.

[Wlerin]

No, the obvious answer is to relax the rules against multi-accounting on merged servers.

[Hayley]

You could have a battle royale server.


Call it server X

Place it equidistant from all servers past a certain age( like 2-3 years. Up for debate) or use a special wormhole

Units from other servers can jump to this new server. They can only travel back to their server of origin


For example a guild from alpha could launch to X and fight a guild from beta or whatever.

Make it sufficiently large so there are tactics involved.

Make a rule that players cannot bring multiple accounts to this new server at the same time( if you have an account on alpha and beta. You can't bring both to X)

Have some objectives/bonuses that incentivize people to come to X (drekon homeworlds? Drekon fleets? High Eco United colonies?)