Addendum to Drako Law, total attacking fleet

[takiwa]

The law should state:

A) The *total fleet allowed to enter the stronghold galaxy of the guild you are at war with cannot exceed XXX% of the defending guild's total fleet.

*total is defined as ALL fleet (main attack fleet, CA/FCs, Scouts, OSs, etc). The ONLY exception to this is RCs. A subsequent fleet of RCs may be sent to recycle derbs after the initial conflict, in accordance with the 6 hour recycling law already in effect.

B) When a declaration of war is made in the forums, the post should contain the fleet count of the defending guild, and the attacking fleet count of the invading guild.

C) If the invading guild is found to attack with more fleet than was posted in the war declaration, OR is found resupplying fleet during or after the battle, they are guilty of violating Drako ROE.

I personally think 115% is high enough, because the fleet total of the defending guild includes their support ships as well, so the attacker still has a slight numerical advantage in attack fleet.

But the council needs to make this determination. Set the % high enough to cover support fleet, resupply fleet, etc., and have the GM's vote and approve. End of discussion.

[Zanthus]

The problem is that it's pretty difficult to enforce. But a clear ruling is superior to an ambiguous one. I think there should be an exception to recyclers though. Cause otherwise a few lucky HC's and some people won't be collecting anything.

[takiwa]

The problem is that it's pretty difficult to enforce.

In totality, yes, but if we claim we are bringing 3.5m fleet to a war, and we land 4 or 5m on the gate, all the defending guild would have to do is screenshot it and post it.

After the war, if we were found flying in resupply fleets by a defending guild member on scanner, again, a SS and post.

Everything won't get caught, sure, but the law HAS to be less ambiguous

But a clear ruling is superior to an ambiguous one. I think there should be an exception to recyclers though. Cause otherwise a few lucky HC's and some people won't be collecting anything.

I would agree to the RC exception. I think that would be better than raising the % to cover them. Edited my post to reflect this, thanks

[Wlerin]

No, it shouldn't. A) is even more confusing than what's already written, and in fact changes nothing aside from adding an unnecessary exception for RCs. More words does not mean less ambiguity.

Whatever that rule is changed to, it shouldn't:

1) Make exceptions for RCs. All fleet should be counted for simplicity's sake. Guilds can decide for themselves what the best ratio of RCs to attack fleet is, but they still have to abide by the 6 hour rule (and maybe something for larger piles too), and/or risk having their RCs derbed if they don't bring enough to clear the piles quickly.

2) Try to measure attacking (that is launched) fleet. Count total guild fleet. Remember, war guilds are required now so we can actually do this without including a bunch of uninvolved players. Just up the allowed percentage a bit.

3) Following on from #3, they shouldn't say anything specifically about resupply fleets. If total guild fleet has already been checked, then you won't have problems with another 50-60% fleet getting sent as "resupply".


B) is good. It should have been required from the start.


First part of C) is what already happens, second is irrelevant if total fleet, rather than launched fleet, is counted.

[takiwa]

No, it shouldn't. A) is even more confusing than what's already written, and in fact changes nothing aside from adding an unnecessary exception for RCs. More words does not mean less ambiguity.

It adds the word "total" and then defines it. That makes it much less ambiguous. The council can determine the definition of the word, what I wrote was just an example.

Whatever that rule is changed to, it shouldn't:

1) Make exceptions for RCs. All fleet should be counted for simplicity's sake. Guilds can decide for themselves what the best ratio of RCs to attack fleet is, but they still have to abide by the 6 hour rule (and maybe something for larger piles too), and/or risk having their RCs derbed if they don't bring enough to clear the piles quickly.

I see your point, but then I would see a need to make the % of fleet slightly larger to take into account the RCs, since they are non-aggressive and shouldn't be counted in attacking fleet.

2) Try to measure attacking (that is launched) fleet. Count total guild fleet. Remember, war guilds are required now so we can actually do this without including a bunch of uninvolved players. Just up the allowed percentage a bit.

3) Following on from #3, they shouldn't say anything specifically about resupply fleets. If total guild fleet has already been checked, then you won't have problems with another 50-60% fleet getting sent as "resupply".

I was actually unaware of the war guild clause when I wrote this, should have read the law better

[Wlerin]

I see your point, but then I would see a need to make the % of fleet slightly larger to take into account the RCs, since they are non-aggressive and shouldn't be counted in attacking fleet.

Well, the existing percentage already takes RCs into account.

And war guilds were made necessary somewhat recently, by council decision.

[OneOfMany]

Guys- If a defending guild has 10m fleet complete with base defs, recs, inactos etcetc. that may total to 7m mobile on a perfect day and typically more like 5m that would actually move to a launch order. An attacking guild has formed a war guild purposely with people committed and motivated to actually fight and can launch 115% meaning 11.5m AAAAND can resupply after derbing a blob of HALF its force. Defender's advantage? my left foot! The result is predictable. Before any resupplies there could easily still be 5m attacker fleet left and resupplies can already be close.

If we really want to 'make wars fair' as is the current law's premise, we are gonna have to get real. All this current law does is make sure a larger attacker does not have to worry about another guild coming to help the defending guild or exploit the fleet movement to move in from the rear.
Either we should allow other guilds to join in on the smaller guild's behalf or a more equal fleet rules need to be made. probably both.

[Sandcastle Smasher]

Guys- If a defending guild has 10m fleet complete with base defs, recs, inactos etcetc. that may total to 7m mobile on a perfect day and typically more like 5m that would actually move to a launch order. An attacking guild has formed a war guild purposely with people committed and motivated to actually fight and can launch 115% meaning 11.5m AAAAND can resupply after derbing a blob of HALF its force. Defender's advantage? my left foot! The result is predictable. Before any resupplies there could easily still be 5m attacker fleet left and resupplies can already be close.

If we really want to 'make wars fair' as is the current law's premise, we are gonna have to get real. All this current law does is make sure a larger attacker does not have to worry about another guild coming to help the defending guild or exploit the fleet movement to move in from the rear.
Either we should allow other guilds to join in on the smaller guild's behalf or a more equal fleet rules need to be made. probably both.

7mil v 11mil seems kinda fair with defenders advantage tbh,especially because defenders can pile crap loads of FT on a LZ at this point in the game due to the high travel times between galaxies.

also 7mil/10mil is absolutely terrible on the defenders part, they should be able to get much much more there than that, if they cant then they have too many inactive players or too much base defense fleet. , they should be able to get around 9mil there probably.



And to your second point, well that is great. The amount of times i've been waiting for a crash only for it to be canceled because we found out another guild were planning to come and steal the pile.

[OneOfMany]

Guys- If a defending guild has 10m fleet complete with base defs, recs, inactos etcetc. that may total to 7m mobile on a perfect day and typically more like 5m that would actually move to a launch order. An attacking guild has formed a war guild purposely with people committed and motivated to actually fight and can launch 115% meaning 11.5m AAAAND can resupply after derbing a blob of HALF its force. Defender's advantage? my left foot! The result is predictable. Before any resupplies there could easily still be 5m attacker fleet left and resupplies can already be close.

If we really want to 'make wars fair' as is the current law's premise, we are gonna have to get real. All this current law does is make sure a larger attacker does not have to worry about another guild coming to help the defending guild or exploit the fleet movement to move in from the rear.
Either we should allow other guilds to join in on the smaller guild's behalf or a more equal fleet rules need to be made. probably both.

7mil v 11mil seems kinda fair with defenders advantage tbh,especially because defenders can pile crap loads of FT on a LZ at this point in the game due to the high travel times between galaxies.

also 7mil/10mil is absolutely terrible on the defenders part, they should be able to get much much more there than that, if they cant then they have too many inactive players or too much base defense fleet. , they should be able to get around 9mil there probably.



And to your second point, well that is great. The amount of times i've been waiting for a crash only for it to be canceled because we found out another guild were planning to come and steal the pile.

You dont get it- 70% of total fleet mobile and as active as an invader is tops imo. 11.5m attackers are (shy of a super screw up) guaranteed to win a blob crash- no? So the rules now 1) guarantee an invader the win 2) make sure the invader cannot be harassed by another guild in the mean time.

[Hayley]

that's the defender's fault for having deadweight in their guild.

if anything this encourages guilds to cut down on inactos/noobs/deadweight so their actives aren't outnumbered 2:1 on an invasion

[Twerk Team]

i figured you'
d be all aboard for deadweight hayley. doesn't it make it easier to claim a war is unfair due to unfair averages?