Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Knopfler-fan
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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby Knopfler-fan » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 00:10

GDI wrote:Both guilds have violated a section of the Drako Law,
These violations are minor and will offset one another.

In the mean time, according to Drako Law [DOGE] is correct in having the ability to attack [SYN] in 04/05.
If you need an explanation as to why then I suggest you stop commenting on the law and go back and read it again.

If you're still having trouble comprehending the law then ask your Council Rep. to explain it to you.



Well im having problems comprehending where the merger rule is in Drako Law, cause for the hell of me i cant seem to find it, Once again NOWHERE on Drako Law does it state anything about mergers,

Secondly, DOGE may have a claim to attack SYN in 04 but not in 05. ADHD members are under SYN tag and SYN had members in 05 also, so the shared status should remain, As SYN have recently finished a war and rebuilding so Rule 3 sub sectiion (e) is in force.

And yes im still debating the decision of voting in favour of DOGE over merger.

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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby Star1222 » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 00:11

better answer the lowers be left alone and let us all fight it out

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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby Star1222 » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 00:16

Knopfler-fan wrote:
GDI wrote:Both guilds have violated a section of the Drako Law,
These violations are minor and will offset one another.

In the mean time, according to Drako Law [DOGE] is correct in having the ability to attack [SYN] in 04/05.
If you need an explanation as to why then I suggest you stop commenting on the law and go back and read it again.

If you're still having trouble comprehending the law then ask your Council Rep. to explain it to you.



Well im having problems comprehending where the merger rule is in Drako Law, cause for the hell of me i cant seem to find it, Once again NOWHERE on Drako Law does it state anything about mergers,

Secondly, DOGE may have a claim to attack SYN in 04 but not in 05. ADHD members are under SYN tag and SYN had members in 05 also, so the shared status should remain, As SYN have recently finished a war and rebuilding so Rule 3 sub sectiion (e) is in force.

And yes im still debating the decision of voting in favour of DOGE over merger.


thats kinda no offense cause they approved the merger

[8/24/2015 2:27:31 AM] Dustin Spangler: Well whatever outcome occurs, there is room for ADHD core members in DOGE. We have established a training guild and are shifting members there now. If all of ADHD wants to go to SYN that is fine but I believe a regime change is necessary for the survival of ADHD in Drako
[8/24/2015 2:27:46 AM] Dustin Spangler: GH has proven himself incapable even with some coherent leadership placed beside him
[8/24/2015 2:28:24 AM] Dustin Spangler: I will not ask you to abandon your guild but think of ADHD and its future

GDI
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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby GDI » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 00:26

Thall wrote:
GDI wrote:Both guilds have violated a section of the Drako Law,
These violations are minor and will offset one another.

In the mean time, according to Drako Law [DOGE] is correct in having the ability to attack [SYN] in 04/05.
If you need an explanation as to why then I suggest you stop commenting on the law and go back and read it again.

If you're still having trouble comprehending the law then ask your Council Rep. to explain it to you.

Ok lets go through facts
a) assume that DOGE can attack SYN in 04 and 05. It means that SYN can destroy DOGE without making and war declaration in 04 and 05 without any fleet restriction since it is a cluster war. That's ok.
b) DOGE started to hit SYN in 03 during server wide CFwhich is not a DOGE SH. It makes DOGE Serverwide KOS
c) Assume that the council (where DOGE represented and SYN/ADHD were not represented) decision is valid and the merge of ADHD/SYN is not accepted, so ADHD/DOGE CF treaty is still valid since DOGE claimed that termination of ADHD also nullifies the pact. According to council decision DOGE clearly violated CF by attacking ADHD members and still continuing to attack. Which put DOGE into Serverwide KOS.

Whatever decision comes from the council, it doesn't justify any act of DOGE.

A) no they cannot, read the law.
B) A former ADHD member (now SYN) hit DOGE in 05 - as I said both sides violated a section of the drako law, those hits offset one another. If you are wondering why look at the law.
C) to the best of my knowledge they are not looking at the merger anymore and more at the legality of attacks against one another. If the merger is not accepted then [ADHD] members who moved to [SYN] could be seen as rouges trying to escape from their obligations to [DOGE] and fulfilling their CF agreement.

That wouldn't be good for the former ADHD members.

--
@ Star1222 - read the law
also, copy/paste skype logs is a joke..

[2:07:03 PM] Scott (One): Go ahead and eat ADHD
[2:07:08 PM] Scott (One): they are a bunch of newbs we dont want them
[2:07:26 PM] Scott (One): just remember SYN gains 05 and 06 as SHs
[2:09:05 PM] Dustin Spangler: lololo sounds good to me

look at that, SYN and DOGE are working together... :roll:
Last edited by GDI on Wed 26 Aug, 2015 00:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby GDI » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 00:27

forgot to mention Thall, regarding the first point, if its a cluster war then [NASA] will be involved as well..

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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby Thall » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 00:35

SouthOnFir3 wrote:By merging you tried to aviod all the cf terms you agreed too when u lost the war. Thats one of the many things wrong with what u adhd did.
Council vote was 4-1 adhd merging into syn will not be recognized. If syn wishes to involve themselves in the fight then that is another issue all together.

Which CF terms were avoided? Do you have any proof that any of those terms will not fulfilled?
1) ADHD members even merged with SYN can still form a warguild with DOGE and no official announcement were made from ADHD/SYN that this item is omitted.
2) MDP terms can now extensively discussed with SYN/ADHD merge, so there is no avoidance of this item too
3) Galaxy ownership : No official announcement were made about 04-05 where SH status change is requested, so no violation or avoidance of this item too.
4) Joint training guild: oh well, DOGE announced their OWN training guild recruiting in 01, 04-06. 05 is a shared galaxy with ADHD where actually DOGE has no SH ability a day prior to merger. Well yes this item is completely avoided by DOGE without any consulting with ADHD, can be considered a VIOLATION of CF. DOGE can use this VIOLATION as a solid ground to their attacks :boohoo:

Either merged or not merged there is NO evidence of VIOLATION of CF from ADHD (or SYN) side. There is no solid ground of DOGE's vulgar acts, which should be punished with Serverwide KOS.

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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby Star1222 » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 00:40

only difference is i have no issue giving my skype log out i have a skype account for every new server to keep my info straighten out and me not being leadership i have no issue letting val get on my account and read the logs him self

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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby Thall » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 00:41

GDI wrote:A) no they cannot, read the law.
B) A former ADHD member (now SYN) hit DOGE in 05 - as I said both sides violated a section of the drako law, those hits offset one another. If you are wondering why look at the law.
C) to the best of my knowledge they are not looking at the merger anymore and more at the legality of attacks against one another. If the merger is not accepted then [ADHD] members who moved to [SYN] could be seen as rouges trying to escape from their obligations to [DOGE] and fulfilling their CF agreement.

That wouldn't be good for the former ADHD members.


A) it is a setup and as a fiction, but if DOGE can attack SYN in 05, it means that SYN can ZF the offenders without violating any law
B) there are proof of evidences that DOGE hit SYN (former ADHD) members in 03 and started to gather in 05. 05 attack came as a retaliation and protecting ADHD fleets for a safe escape. They don't offset each other.
C) check my previous post, there is no proof of evidence that ADHD members are escaping from their obligations and cannot be considered as rogues.

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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby Thall » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 00:47

GDI wrote:forgot to mention Thall, regarding the first point, if its a cluster war then [NASA] will be involved as well..

if it is about 04 or 05 then it will be SH war not Cluster War. [NASA] can't involve it, like if [NASA] decides to make a SH war in 01 with [DOGE] no one else can involve without proper war declaration.

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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby GDI » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 01:12

Thall wrote:
GDI wrote:A) no they cannot, read the law.
B) A former ADHD member (now SYN) hit DOGE in 05 - as I said both sides violated a section of the drako law, those hits offset one another. If you are wondering why look at the law.
C) to the best of my knowledge they are not looking at the merger anymore and more at the legality of attacks against one another. If the merger is not accepted then [ADHD] members who moved to [SYN] could be seen as rouges trying to escape from their obligations to [DOGE] and fulfilling their CF agreement.

That wouldn't be good for the former ADHD members.


A) it is a setup and as a fiction, but if DOGE can attack SYN in 05, it means that SYN can ZF the offenders without violating any law
B) there are proof of evidences that DOGE hit SYN (former ADHD) members in 03 and started to gather in 05. 05 attack came as a retaliation and protecting ADHD fleets for a safe escape. They don't offset each other.
C) check my previous post, there is no proof of evidence that ADHD members are escaping from their obligations and cannot be considered as rogues.
I know you guys want to defend ADHD/SYN but seriously,, read the law...
If people (both parties) did then we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

If you read the law you will understand why I said to read it for both points A & B..


as for your point C,, I'll give you that one,, if the council voids the ADHD/SYN merger then they would need to follow the CF and in roughly 7 days ADHD would have to leave SYN and form a war guild with DOGE or it would be violating the CF,, [DOGE] would have violated the MDP by attacking them which would be a no-no,,


please note in my Point C I'm talking about whether the attacks are legal under Drako Law and then go on to reply to your hypothetical,,
If the council does indeed decide to void the merger though I could argue a point that would clear [DOGE] of any wrong doing by using [SYN] as the cause of confusion which wouldn't be good for them,,
-
Regarding the Cluster war comment, I was pointing out in your original post you called the 04/05 SH fight a "cluster war". If it was then NASA would get involved,, simple wording mistake but understandable,,

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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby SouthOnFir3 » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 01:29

Gtfo with your logic and reason. They dont belong here!

fkabnk wrote:Oh boy, that's some addex level stuff right there.
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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby Wlerin » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 01:50

Thall wrote:C) check my previous post, there is no proof of evidence that ADHD members are escaping from their obligations and cannot be considered as rogues.

Go reread the CF terms. Merging with SYN clearly voids the CF, which means ADHD is still at war, which means they can't merge (and if they try to, those members that do are rogues).


Thall wrote:a) assume that DOGE can attack SYN in 04 and 05. It means that SYN can destroy DOGE without making and war declaration in 04 and 05 without any fleet restriction since it is a cluster war. That's ok.

Balderdash. 04 is a DOGE SH. They can hit SYN, any SYN, as easily as they hit ADHD, CF, NAP, or no. There's no such thing as a "cluster war", but if you meant a stronghold war, there very much is a fleet restriction: Only members local to the galaxy can fight in a stronghold war.

Thall wrote:b) DOGE started to hit SYN in 03 during server wide CFwhich is not a DOGE SH. It makes DOGE Serverwide KOS

Bollocks. SYN had no presence in 03. Those were ADHD members, and they violated the CF when they attempted to merge with SYN (since y'all are repeating yourselves I will too).

Thall wrote:c) Assume that the council (where DOGE represented and SYN/ADHD were not represented) decision is valid and the merge of ADHD/SYN is not accepted, so ADHD/DOGE CF treaty is still valid since DOGE claimed that termination of ADHD also nullifies the pact. According to council decision DOGE clearly violated CF by attacking ADHD members and still continuing to attack. Which put DOGE into Serverwide KOS.

Wtf does this even mean?

1) ADHD attempted to merge with SYN, breaking the terms of the CF.
2) ADHD is now at war. They can't merge with SYN.
3) That doesn't magically reinstate the CF. The CF has passed on. It's no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! It's a stiff! Bereft of life. THIS IS AN EX-CF!!

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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby OneOfMany » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 03:26

The fact is that I spoke extensively with Doge LS and have screen shots of them not only not objecting to the merge, but also agreeing that ADHD should be dissolved and absorbed.
The fact that they raised their CF violation claim only after the merge is evidence of their conspiring to void the CF as they have tried to do just 2 days prior on other grounds.

Furthermore the claim by DOGE that SYN violated the law by taking in ADHD is ridiculous since they took in a player fleeing the SYN/UFC war.

If Doge had an objection- Why did they not voice it in diplomatic talks with SYN before hand?

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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby Twerk Team » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 07:26

I mean that's fair. If skype logs show doge agreeing that adhd should dissolve into syn then the ruling should be overturned.

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Re: Extra! Extra! Turmoil in the lowers!

Postby Panzermeyer » Wed 26 Aug, 2015 16:26

Well, i know Thall thinks there was a hidden agenda in DOGE to end ADHD, the fact is that during CF negotiation a merge between DOGE and ADHD was proposed by DOGE, and refused because ADHD didn't want to loose identity. ADHD believed the merge would serve to KD players later, not understanding the logic of the training guild.

DOGE started the training guild alone to start sorting players in need of development, cause if we waited to ADHD it would have never started, the fact is that 1 day later the merge with SYN was announced to ADHD players while some had a different opinion. So long for guild independence, main reason not to merge DOGE, and the swan chant for ADHD.


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