~Lowers update~

[abnormal soldier]

SYN hasn't fought hard from the start, you guys were simming longer than anyone else before they finally started attacking you

[Pinochle]

Funny how Nasa can still talk trash... U guys promised to end us, formed war guilds, failed, merged, failed, merged, failed again.... SYN has fought hard from the start and was the test bunny to the Drako Law as UFC declared on us. Certain super egos then decided that since we had low fleet after that war ended that we would be good farms and FAILED. Now half of you are either pacting or RQing.

[SWAG] ROFL!!

Funny you should speak of pacts

Known SYN pacts to include Aoowoa and Doge. (only other semi large guilds in lowers...) Doge more recently.. BTW the initial conflict was between Doge/Adhd & SYN, NASA got involved because DOGE begged us for help.. Switcharoo for two..

All to come after NASA of 28 members.

It's not hard to talk trash to the mighty French Zerg

[Sean Likes Pandas]

Funny how Nasa can still talk trash... U guys promised to end us, formed war guilds, failed, merged, failed, merged, failed again.... SYN has fought hard from the start and was the test bunny to the Drako Law as UFC declared on us. Certain super egos then decided that since we had low fleet after that war ended that we would be good farms and FAILED. Now half of you are either pacting or RQing.

[SWAG] ROFL!!

Funny you should speak of pacts

Known SYN pacts to include Aoowoa and Doge. (only other semi large guilds in lowers...) Doge more recently.. BTW the initial conflict was between Doge/Adhd & SYN, NASA got involved because DOGE begged us for help.. Switcharoo for two..

All to come after NASA of 28 members.

It's not hard to talk trash to the mighty French Zerg

There are meany reasons regarding DOGE's decisions.

Everything happens for a reason. Maybe you should discuss with NASA LS and then also look at the big picture from DOGE point of view.

If you want to summarize a decision/event involving two opposite sides then please look at both sides' reasons/views so your conclusion or summary of said decision/event isn't biased or missing vital information.

[Pinochle]

Yeah Cyber & FDR had a squabble. (FDR called Cyber a noob on the general boards) - ..

Cyber left upset, soon DOGE & SYN are allied..

---

But remember Doge came to NASA for help against SYN, not the other way around...

Exhibit A:
evidence of this was apparent from first crash, when you & other Doge leaders wouldn't allow NASA advice or permissions while in SWAG.. We got demolished, then you guys blamed NASA (whom was not allowed to even make anny's!!) Which is why we went back to NASA..

No one should ever trust Doge to do anything but be a Beta for the rest of server..

Hopskin, how did you explain to your members that lost their mobiles to SYN as you guys were pacted? Curious why wasn't that a deal breaker? - No balls.

[Sean Likes Pandas]

1. DOGE LS was disrespected VIA Skype and in game multiple times.
a. DOGE LS was disrespected multiple times and was blamed on for the loss of the attempted crash. Even though we were rushed to make quick "fun" for NASA's convenience so the little contribution from NASA we had didn't leave the war, as would pose a problem to DOGE. But, better decisions could have been made by DOGE LS but mistakes happen and with the threat of the NASA players saying "If there's not a crash soon then I'm going to go tend to my perma-occs." After said crash Cyber came back to GM the guild and in chats the LS team was continuously insulted and disrespected by Southy except for Cyber. And thus Cyber tried to patch up the relations of DOGE/NASA.

2. NASA's highly unattractive split Leadership which caused small contribution from NASA's part.
a. At one point most of NASA, following one "side" of LS, was home while some of NASA, such as Southy, Eclipse, and others, were actually contributing to the war with SYN and following Southy's side of NASA LS. This angered DOGE LS and appeared to us as though NASA is in an unpredictable state of LS which doesn't care about DOGE and therefore is an inconvenient ally. And there was also the carelessness for DOGE they showed even before SYN was #2.

Effect: This caused more hostility and loss of trust between the LS of both guilds and with only Cyber being respected by NASA LS he was the last straw. Once Cyber was angered and then disrespected like the rest of DOGE LS that made everyone in DOGE LS (except Kedart) done with kissing NASA's feet for the war with SYN. -Also, Cyber was disrespected beyond that "noob" insult. After that he was disrespected and gave up hope on NASA being an ally in the war with SYN.

--- At this point we thought over our options, all were bad but the one decided upon was to end war with SYN and look for other opportunities.

Pointing the fault of the failure of relations between NASA/DOGE on DOGE LS and DOGE LS only is exceptionally biased and childish. The cause to emphasize is the disrespect directed to DOGE LS.

[Pinochle]

Agree with point 1 & 1a completely. - You failed to mention that NASA leadership was not allowed to help organize the first crash.. was completely handled by Doge LS, - Usually when you have an ally the GM of other team is given basic privileges such as M and activity times. We provided the braves for the slaughter.. Fool me once, shame on you... Which is why second crash we had to recall

Can you provide evidence of disrespect? There were many times where Doge members were asking and debating over astroids being better to build on because they were cheaper for Prings.. or wasting KD opportunities by killing fighters with frigates.. (ratios were terrible..) NASA member read this and were like omg we allied an ASAE.

NASA contribution was greater if not equal to any contribution that Doge brought to table. i spent my active times freeing Doge bases from Syn... (so did other NASA core members) did not see same effort by Doge guys..

Proof of our commitment is shown by our fleet numbers alone NASA has 30 members and Doge has 46 members.. so how can you explain this? (We have nearly two million more fleet than you!!!) and you have 16 more members..

4 [NASA] Not Another Server - ARGHHH 27,902,805 30 930,094

6 [DOGE] Much Good, Very Wow 26,085,135 46 567,068

End of day you guys are little doggies for your master.. Nice work Syn, zerg complete.

[Sean Likes Pandas]

Agree with point 1 & 1a completely. - You failed to mention that NASA leadership was not allowed to help organize the first crash.. was completely handled by Doge LS, - Usually when you have an ally the GM of other team is given basic privileges such as M and activity times. We provided the braves for the slaughter.. Fool me once, shame on you... Which is why second crash we had to recall

Can you provide evidence of disrespect? There were many times where Doge members were asking and debating over astroids being better to build on because they were cheaper for Prings.. or wasting KD opportunities by killing fighters with frigates.. (ratios were terrible..) NASA member read this and were like omg we allied an ASAE.

NASA contribution was greater if not equal to any contribution that Doge brought to table. i spent my active times freeing Doge bases from Syn... (so did other NASA core members) did not see same effort by Doge guys..

Proof of our commitment is shown by our fleet numbers alone NASA has 30 members and Doge has 46 members.. so how can you explain this? (We have nearly two million more fleet than you!!!) and you have 16 more members..

4 [NASA] Not Another Server - ARGHHH 27,902,805 30 930,094

6 [DOGE] Much Good, Very Wow 26,085,135 46 567,068

End of day you guys are little doggies for your master.. Nice work Syn, zerg complete.

"At one point" NASA wasn't contributing much at all.

DOGE has been in way more wars while NASA simmed and perma-occed noobs in 00/01. Most NASA didn't even contribute in crash with SYN. lolol

3 [DOGE] Much Good, Very Wow 4,066,811 46 88,409
5 [NASA] Not Another Server - ARGHHH 1,492,892 30 49,763

Way more XP even if you count for 16 more people.

And I can find logs of Southy disrespecting DOGE LS. But I'm not going to go through Skype to find them. Southy knows he did so just ask him.

[Hayley]

You asked us to come help you fight SYN. We launch to 05 as soon as orders come from LS to aid you in your war.

You ask us to wait in 05 for a week and twiddle our thumbs, we wait in 05 twiddling our thumbs.

We got bored waiting in 06 because it was a clear blob stare with niether side having the numbers to crash the other side. We decided to send a few of our most active fleets to 03 to perma-occ ADHD members.

I occupied about 25 bases that were OSY+(Cap Stack Accounts) because I wanted to kill their income and keep pillaging them so they would have lots of negative fleet maintenance and wouldn't be able to repair as much in the crash - or build up their cap stacks. We held basically every high lvl JG in 03 so their reinforcement stream wouldn't be able to add to their blob. I held maybe a total of 45+ occupations in 03.

If you allowed us to keep adding occs and cut off their income/reinforcements in 03. We would be able to get ahead enough on fleet to crash them. Instead we had DOGE leadership throwing a hissy fit and ordering everyone to the blob or else they wouldn't get to use DOGE gates. You decided to split the guild up into 2 guilds - a war guild for those on the 06 gate and everyone not there would be left behind. What's the point of splitting up the guild when our guild has the same total fleet count as SYN? You basically just wanted to deny the people perma-occing in 03 the oppurtunity to use your gate.

Well we end up going back from 03 to 06, all our occs that we took losses to take end up getting free. Then we go on that total suicide of a crash.

Our blob in 06 was about equal in size to SYN's 07 blob. With the exception that SYN had some people who had extra FTs on their blob since they had been prepping for us to crash them.

What made you think you could crash equal size blobs? If you get 80% of our blob to launch - maybe 75% will be on time at best. So you'd be landing 60% of our blob probably on their 100% size blob. Did you expect all of us to get 1:2 ratios? Do you expect none of them to be online?


Instead our launch into 07 was complete *beep*. We had maybe 20 fleets landing on time - a front wave of 12+ million into a Syn blob of 36 million standing.

Our total launched at 2 hours from landing was 33 million (This includes all late landers and recs) into a SYN blob that had peaked around 37 million.

Why would you decide that everything is ok and it's good to land?


And also - why did we launch directly onto the SYN blob? By landing on the SYN blob - you allow their inactives which would not have moved onto our LZ to be part of the battle. If you're counting on SYN inactivity to help you win the landing - then why land on their blob where their inactives help hide their actives?

Furthermore by landing directly on the SYN 07 main JG - you allow every fleet on that JG to make a roundtrip to their bases to pick up any extra base defense fighters they want and stack the lz even further against us.



You can't blame mistakes of this magnitude on anybody but the people who were running the invasion/crash.

You can't blame people who didn't show up for the crash.

You can't blame people who wanted to crash right away.


As leadership - You are responsible for making sure you send your guild on crashes they can win and You are responsible for issuing the recall order when it is clear they cannot win.

Doge leadership was entirely in charge and failed on both counts. So when you complain about Southy not respecting your leaders - first ask yourself whether your leaders deserve any respect.



We came when you called for help.

We launched into 07 with you even when many of us thought the crash was suicidal.

We showed faith in you as partners.

And you abandon us and pact with SYN because someone in our leadership decided to show you disrespect?

[Pinochle]

Interesting that you discount our farming effort in 00/01

First it was NASA vs RUN 15ish people vs 110ish people (Run lost)
Second it was NASA vs SP- evenish numbers we farmed the lower members and merged the good players.
Third it was NASA vs DOG 20 ish people vs 60 ish people (Dog lost) - many relocated to 30's and joined the What/Crybc squad

Then we get a message from Doge asking us to join up to take on SYN, because you guys were getting farmed hard by them. (not surprised that you have high experience) While your squad was in NASA there were handfuls of reports coming in of SYN perma occing your members. I enjoyed freeing the bases, I'm sure SYN will realize eventually that you guys are dead weight and consume the weak 80%. (I'm a little jelly) - Your separation is a perfect example of LS vanity more important than its members. During the NAP negotiations and finalization SYN derbed your members in transition to DOGE (you see his abrupt departure didnt give time for his mates to come online) I don't blame SYN for this, they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. Tactically you sold out your team because you couldn't accept criticism from the NASA LS. The LS for Doge needs to get head out of arse and smell the roses.

OO boo whoo southy was mean to you... Glad he did.. I don't respect you either..
Don't bite the hand that feeds you...

[Wlerin]

And I can find logs of Southy disrespecting DOGE LS. But I'm not going to go through Skype to find them. Southy knows he did so just ask him.

Didn't Southy quit a week or more ago?

[Sean Likes Pandas]

@ Hayley. I didn't blame the crash on NASA.

But we were rushed as if we didn't have something for you guys to do then the few NASA we had would leave back to their perma-occs in 00/01. And we couldn't crash because not all NASA was participating. Some were staying in 00/01 because meh, didn't feel like it. I admitted that DOGE LS made mistakes with judgement in that crash in my earlier post.

And saying "if we don't have food now I'm going back home"- Shows carelessness for DOGE which thus makes you guys look like an ally we can't trust.

---

@ Pinochle. I don't care if I'm disrespected personally. But he disrespected all of LS excluding Cyber which is not good for diplomacy. Get the point. Taking my words out of context so it looks like I'm pouting won't get you anywhere. It wasn't any form of constructive criticism, it was "Thank god Cyber is here now because DOGE LS is fcking stupid" "DOGE LS is stupid". etc etc.

"First it was NASA vs RUN 15ish people vs 110ish people (Run lost)" DOGE kinda helped you in that one. :/
You don't remember Frosty crying on forums about how we didn't help NASA earlier?

---

@Wlerin. No. He's been NASA LS.

[Pinochle]

Kind of helped us with Run? How would you guys have gotten here? You weren't in 00/01 ... and this was before vast JG's that could get you from galaxy to galaxy in a number of hours..

I believe you are thinking about Dog, and yes you showed up to farm the bases after we killed their Blob. How convenient

If you admit to the mistakes, then you'd have to agree with Southy that Doge leadership is "F"ing stupid.. Haley detailed it for you..

I am glad we dropped our dead weight, was tired of seeing the NASA tag on the ticker, because your members would get recall trapped (we gave multiple warnings about this btw).. Your team is determined to get eaten...

Can't even face us 1v1 even with 16 more members. Poor little chap.... I guess this is your way of acknowledging that NASA is way better than Doge could ever dream to be.

[Hayley]

The reason he disrespected your leadership is because your leadership decided to send us on that suicide of a crash in 07 that we had no chance in hell of winning. I have already detailed above why the crash was utterly stupid in multiple ways. You cannot blame it on NASA because the people ordering the launch were doge leadership. You did not give NASA leadership privs at all in the new joint guild.

We had no chance of winning that crash in 07. As leadership it is your duty to recall us from that idiotic attempt. You failed in every way imaginable. Your excuses do not make any sense

[Kedart]

And I can find logs of Southy disrespecting DOGE LS. But I'm not going to go through Skype to find them. Southy knows he did so just ask him.

Didn't Southy quit a week or more ago?

Southy quit two days ago, along with myself and Kes.

Sean is right, though. Hayley and Pinochle, I love you guys but you didn't see what happened behind the scenes. You can believe Benji's spin on things all you want, but he the truth of the matter is still out there. His method of diplomacy put DOGE LS in a no-win situation. None of the ways out looked good to me - I was not keen on pacting SYN and stabbing NASA as I probably have more friends in NASA than in DOGE... But at the same time, Cyber's decisions and reasoning were more than justified if you had seen the full extent of Benji's sabotage and diplomatic strong-arming.

So I quit.

[Kedart]

The reason he disrespected your leadership is because your leadership decided to send us on that suicide of a crash in 07 that we had no chance in hell of winning. I have already detailed above why the crash was utterly stupid in multiple ways. You cannot blame it on NASA because the people ordering the launch were doge leadership. You did not give NASA leadership privs at all in the new joint guild.

We had no chance of winning that crash in 07. As leadership it is your duty to recall us from that idiotic attempt. You failed in every way imaginable. Your excuses do not make any sense

That's not how things were. Southy was given VGM privs as soon as he tagged over. Benjii didn't tag over until a few hours before the crash, and he didn't ask for privs. None of us knew who he was in game.

Before you say "how the *beep* did you not know who he was", keep in mind that Benji brags on a regular basis that he doesn't know who any of the DOGE LS players are in game despite us telling him multiple times.

As for not allowing NASA LS any say in the blob crash, that's pure nonsense. NASA LS told us "make launch tables". So we did. When the topic of whether or not to launch direct to SYN blob or launch to JG was put up, NASA LS voted in favor of launching directly at SYN blob. During the final hour before landing, NASA LS did not say a WORD about recalling, despite all of us being online and on Skype.

All in all, this was my fault for not realizing that 2/3 NASA GMs didn't actually want to fight SYN to begin with. I had thought, because of Southy's enthusiasm, that NASA wanted to go for SYN just as much as DOGE did. I was wrong. Instead of being excited and wanting to go hit SYN, NASA LS told us that we were begging for help and effectively attempted to hold us hostage while blaming every little thing that went wrong on DOGE LS. They would refuse to talk to us for days at a time, act like they were on board only to use a failed op as political spin.

Cyber came back, and I told him that dealing with NASA was futile. He was determined to make it work... but he, too, came to the realization that working with Benji is impossible.