DMTNT mass enlightenment spam to the limbo.

[Pinochle]

The basis of my ad hominem is the details and points in which you use to defend/form your stance of a topic in which I made the comparison of your way of defending/forming your stance to that of a 7 year old. It's not hard to connect the dots man.

And I have the stance of cheating as most other people do. The script is fairly irrelevant but the mass of the cheating which is classified as completely and utterly game breaking in the way AE is played today is typically only achieved through the means of a script. If one were to wage/completely alter the path of a war in the severity a script can using alternative less efficient methods other than scripts there would be no change in my stance on the topic.

I, like many other people, have the stance that if I were to start another server in which I have to wage a war against mass combat multis of that severity then I will restart or quit. To be an active member of a war and lose then get "Well, what did you expect". Waste of my money also :/ And for the same people to claim to desire competition... It's actually a new meme. Now there's the "I mass multi and yet desire competition, what about it?" meme. I'll never contradict myself that severely in my entire life.

And you basically just said that you based your topic of "all cheating is equal" off of a generalization about god in a joking way. There's no possible way you can expect me to take a point like that seriously in any manner.

Blip 1: .... Sigh .... You are defending your ad hominem attacks. (you are defending incorrect arguments)


Blip 2: Red Herring - "I, like many other people have a stance..." and/or more specifically "Appeal to the people", This fallacy uses the "Lots of people believe what I believe, so it must be true" The world was once thought to be flat, but that does not make it true.

Blip 3: Moving the goal posts, Sean you engaged in this debate, through a comment I made to Balor. In a previous post, you made a statement claiming that in some way I was attacking you to stroke my epeen, something to that effect. Yet it was quite the opposite. As I read your arguments and blips I now realize that you are franticly attempting to try and save face.

The majority of your positions include incorrect arguments (fallacies) Believe what you want Sean, I've enjoyed your tearful life force that you exerted when attempting to "win" an argument. I've had a long held belief that it is impossible to show reason to unreasonable people.

Cheating is cheating, if you choose to cheat do not cry to the masses foul because someone can do it better.

Side observation and question:

You know way too much about 7 year olds. Were you required by law to register on a list?

[KFCSajin]

I have hit up to 5 seperate bases with fleet within seconds of each other
Its not cheating its several pages open at once
You can do the same with the attack page
If you don't know something that's a simple game feature how can you accuse people of cheating

Sorry for the long wait. Here is a response.

Yes, I know about opening different tabs to launch an attack.
But you cant do this with a single fleet on a single target or else the game server will make you lag for a fraction of a second to retrieve your new battle ID (even if you had instant internet, you will still get delay). The second thing to consider was the landing time, which I left out. He attacked me on the same second I landed, and the last attack came between 1.01-1.99 seconds later. Not only this but I was prepared to move my fleet. They died before I could move them and I thought I was the one who drew faster.

I seen a combat multi in action. That is their rate of battle reports per second. So either he is using a combat script or he is as good as one, which I dont believe.

[Sean Likes Pandas]

Pointing out my appeals doesn't make them any less truthful or effective. And no I'm not defending my ad hominem attacks. I'm pointing what I am doing though since you seem to not be able to understand.

And I believe I'm done here since your argument is now limited to "All your points our wrong." and saying I'm somehow crying. gg

"Cheating is cheating, if you choose to cheat do not cry to the masses foul because someone can do it better." already replied to this but alright, keep being ignorant.

"cheating is cheating"="details and points in which you use to defend/form your stance of a topic in which I made the comparison of your way of defending/forming your stance to that of a 7 year old."

And your last "blip", ad hominem. (If you try to make the same claim I did relating to using details to form your ad hominem then you're creating extra ammunition against yourself since you don't have no where near enough details/evidence to base a claim regarding me being a pedophile)

[Pinochle]

Pointing out my appeals doesn't make them any less truthful or effective. And no I'm not defending my ad hominem attacks. I'm pointing what I am doing though since you seem to not be able to understand.

And I believe I'm done here since your argument is now limited to "All your points our wrong." and saying I'm somehow crying. gg

"Cheating is cheating, if you choose to cheat do not cry to the masses foul because someone can do it better." already replied to this but alright, keep being ignorant.

"cheating is cheating"="details and points in which you use to defend/form your stance of a topic in which I made the comparison of your way of defending/forming your stance to that of a 7 year old."

And your last "blip", ad hominem. (If you try to make the same claim I did relating to using details to form your ad hominem then you're creating extra ammunition against yourself since you don't have no where near enough details/evidence to base a claim regarding me being a pedophile)

Replying with incorrect arguments (fallacies) is not a valid response, nor one I recognize.

My side question is fair, throughout this thread you have made reference to 7 year olds and 2 year olds. I didn't make a claim that you are a pedophile, only that you seem to know too much, so I asked a side question.

Why are you dodging?

[Sean Likes Pandas]

Because it's not a valid question as it's entirely irrelevant in the debate . If you were winning this debate you would be questioning my mental capability and my logic. You have only claimed that my arguments are incorrect without any basis of your logic besides that or a joke referring to the generalized god you believe in and made weak jabs at me possibly being a pedophile.

Here's my question, why are you such an idiot and how were you raised to become so mentally inferior that you cannot defend your side of an argument over the internet? I'm just waiting for the "It was all to make you salty Sean" reply so you can take the pussy way out of the argument you lost.

Is it gg now or do you wish to continue with your weak arguments?

[Baylor]

I would draw a comparison with the comparative size of AE capital ships.



As we can see, the Titan is significantly larger than the Dreadnought, which is much larger than the Battleship (BS being like a pseudo-capital ship). The Leviathan, while not pictured, is significantly larger than the Titan. There is also a similar scheme (comparative sizes) for ships from Stars Wars.

Over 3 years ago, I was implicated in the Lyra WikiLeaks. A traitor posted some leaked cables and he also posted a picture of his virtual box. While those were all his combat multis and his virtual box, I was implicated nonetheless and I did my time. The traitor who backstabbed and derbed his whole guild received no justice, as he had already ragequit by then.

So of the Dreamicide killings, 1/3 of the guild were considered loyalists and they were backstabbed and derbed by 1/3 of the guild which was combat multis that were flipped by a foreign leadership, the other 1/3 were defectors/fair-weather fans who flipped to the enemy during and after the stab.

As a result of the Lyra WikiLeaks, I was largely tarred and feathered as supposedly the worst abuser to ever play this game, master of multiple combat and virtual boxes. This label has largely stuck. In reality fka is (as of now) quantifiably the biggest cheat. There are about 5 of them cancer crew who are multi kingpins. 5 is greater than 1.

Old stuff has now become the biggest cop-out and deflection used by current multi kingpins to dissemble and to attribute their dirty deeds to others who have nothing to do at all with the current world war multi happening on Hydra.

So the cancer crew model is very much like a Leviathan in comparative size (200,000), while old stuff from over 3 years ago is somewhere between a BS and a DN (2,000 to 10,000 in fleet net worth). The difference in raw power is largely based on fka/WB/Compulse/Southy/Frosty use of bot/script. So if you take 1 of those guys and compare that to Lyra, they have done about 20x as much cheating as I was alleged to have been involved in. However, there are 5 of them running a mass multi spreadsheet, and only 1 of me. So you end up with actually 100x as much cheating in terms of sheer numbers. So we are dealing with a value of about 1 million cheats that happened on Frontier/Gaia/Hydra via Mayu leadershi* (which is cancer crew) compared to 10k from 3 years ago.

Let's say for the sake of argument that I was inclined to use combat multis for Hydra (I'm not) and to grow those through natural talent (that is, putting in the time and work to queu stuff, hit buttons, and grow econ from scratch). Given the escalation in the high-tech arms race, you would have to be a sucker to try and build 20 multis from scratch, knowing that there is a bot army out there doing the same work (20 units of combat multi) except it is automated, it is not burning out the real player and wasting a ton of their time. Anyway that is enough for now and I will post some numbers and interesting analyses later on, this post is already quite lengthy and I'm aware how nobody likes tl;dr.

[Pinochle]

Because it's not a valid question as it's entirely irrelevant in the debate . If you were winning this debate you would be questioning my mental capability and my logic. You have only claimed that my arguments are incorrect without any basis of your logic besides that or a joke referring to the generalized god you believe in and made weak jabs at me possibly being a pedophile.

Here's my question, why are you such an idiot and how were you raised to become so mentally inferior that you cannot defend your side of an argument over the internet? I'm just waiting for the "It was all to make you salty Sean" reply so you can take the pussy way out of the argument you lost.

Is it gg now or do you wish to continue with your weak arguments?

It is a side question and you keep dodging.

I am aware of what Balor has illustrated (and have witnessed IT people use virtual boxes for IT environments for work reasons, (not a user myself) (-an oracle product)

Nor do I play this game any longer, but time to time check forums, interesting to keep up with the wars and drama.

Not sure if Sean uses virtual box and multiple servers, but Sean has admitted to cheating (not making an accusation ) I do not care about your level of involvement of cheating or who is more sophisticated etc.

My statement of all sins are equal still stands. (All cheating is equal) if Sean was sophisticated enough he would, but can't and cries about it.

Sean's arguments/blips are plagued with fallacies, and it was really fun watching Sean unravel.

Now my side question (side meaning not part of the debate) - feels it needed to be answered.

[Pinochle]

Oh and Sean your logic contains fallacies (aka incorrect arguments) or logic is flawed. Lol thank you for proving your stupidity publicly. (No matter what age you are)

[Wlerin]

Yes, I know about opening different tabs to launch an attack.
But you cant do this with a single fleet on a single target or else the game server will make you lag for a fraction of a second to retrieve your new battle ID...

Yes you can, it's easy. You just refresh the page a bunch after the first attack (using F5).

[Baylor]

so I counted that BALLZ (battlemerged with the Test multis) has 31 Free accounts of 43 total accounts (12 upgrades)

DMTNT has 51 upgrades of 58 accounts

*

now BALLZ does have real players (where you will find most of the upgrades) who relocated from non-20s. They are a guild of real people. I am not faulting them for taking the deal with the multis and doing what they had to do to survive.

==

now STARK looks like a guild of mostly real players. however, 2 things to keep in mind.

1. their top accounts benefit from the security and the ability to farm and plunder cash cows through the multi guild Test

2. they benefit immensely from having an advance army of multi shock troopers who are all able to move ships. 1 person is able to wield 30 accounts worth of work, which makes it easy to launch Ops.

==

recall that constructive crit means identify the problem (cancer crew is ruining the game with their dirty deeds, making it unplayable for everyone who doesn't belong to their tribe and kiss fka's ring) AND identify at least 1 possible solution.

solution: just do the right thing and ban the mass multi army. it should be an insta delete so that Stark and fka's main account cannot farm the multis for luxurious high-yield profits while they are in a state of being deleted.

almost all of the Test accounts are Free and they are being used as shock troops to ground down 51 upgraded players. with Test removed from the picture, Stark still has 50% advantage over DMTNT. that would create incentives for both guilds to make a deal.

Stark still keeps most of their advantage worth of real players, yet they are not quite strong enough (minus Test) to remove DMTNT from the server. DMTNT (at 58 players vs 87 Stark) is also not large enough to remove Stark from the server.

otherwise, aedmin is communicating to the regular players, honest players, and natural talent players, that there really is no place for them on v2 servers and that it is not worth their time to try and compete against this kind of multi zerg.

*

That came out to be only 367 words, not bad at all. It only appears to be tl;dr because I used liberal spacing and formatting to make it far easier on the eyes. I cannot think of any reason why aedmin would value Fka's 30+ combat multis which are Free accounts and to tell the 50 paying real players to just screw off. That makes no sense and it would quite possibly represent the final nail in AE coffin.

I am not complaining that my account is a piece of junk or that my guild is losing. In the past, people have criticized me for verbally grilling and killing people on servers that I didn't play. That is a fair criticism, but it is not relevant now. I paid for this mic, deal with it.

[Sean Likes Pandas]

Pinochle, I'm done with debating you. Your arguments are mere claims and have no basis behind them. Just shut up. You're trying really hard to trigger me and it's the lousiest attempt I've seen to date.

[blahblah]

I have hit up to 5 seperate bases with fleet within seconds of each other
Its not cheating its several pages open at once
You can do the same with the attack page
If you don't know something that's a simple game feature how can you accuse people of cheating

Sorry for the long wait. Here is a response.

Yes, I know about opening different tabs to launch an attack.
But you cant do this with a single fleet on a single target or else the game server will make you lag for a fraction of a second to retrieve your new battle ID (even if you had instant internet, you will still get delay). The second thing to consider was the landing time, which I left out. He attacked me on the same second I landed, and the last attack came between 1.01-1.99 seconds later. Not only this but I was prepared to move my fleet. They died before I could move them and I thought I was the one who drew faster.

I seen a combat multi in action. That is their rate of battle reports per second. So either he is using a combat script or he is as good as one, which I dont believe.

um yes you can
I have done it myself
multiple pages just tap attack
the game doesn't actually check to see if your fleet is the same each time
it just goes of the fleet id
its actually possible to repair ships between attacks
but that limits you to maybe 3 hits in the 5 seconds
you can get up to 7 or 8 or even more in the 5 seconds
the game just records when the attack happens
ques them and then calculates
its even better sometimes because the game will lag a bit and your qued attacks when defending are normally done first
you need to refresh each page just as the fleet lands
then hit attack
often the game will even record those hits as happening all at the same time
its one of the main reasons blob hits are done en-mass
to force lag
because otherwise all your fighter fleets get rape big time

[lodbrok]

so I counted that BALLZ (battlemerged with the Test multis) has 31 Free accounts of 43 total accounts (12 upgrades)

DMTNT has 51 upgrades of 58 accounts

*

now BALLZ does have real players (where you will find most of the upgrades) who relocated from non-20s. They are a guild of real people. I am not faulting them for taking the deal with the multis and doing what they had to do to survive.

==

now STARK looks like a guild of mostly real players. however, 2 things to keep in mind.

1. their top accounts benefit from the security and the ability to farm and plunder cash cows through the multi guild Test

2. they benefit immensely from having an advance army of multi shock troopers who are all able to move ships. 1 person is able to wield 30 accounts worth of work, which makes it easy to launch Ops.

==

recall that constructive crit means identify the problem (cancer crew is ruining the game with their dirty deeds, making it unplayable for everyone who doesn't belong to their tribe and kiss fka's ring) AND identify at least 1 possible solution.

solution: just do the right thing and ban the mass multi army. it should be an insta delete so that Stark and fka's main account cannot farm the multis for luxurious high-yield profits while they are in a state of being deleted.

almost all of the Test accounts are Free and they are being used as shock troops to ground down 51 upgraded players. with Test removed from the picture, Stark still has 50% advantage over DMTNT. that would create incentives for both guilds to make a deal.

Stark still keeps most of their advantage worth of real players, yet they are not quite strong enough (minus Test) to remove DMTNT from the server. DMTNT (at 58 players vs 87 Stark) is also not large enough to remove Stark from the server.

otherwise, aedmin is communicating to the regular players, honest players, and natural talent players, that there really is no place for them on v2 servers and that it is not worth their time to try and compete against this kind of multi zerg.

*

That came out to be only 367 words, not bad at all. It only appears to be tl;dr because I used liberal spacing and formatting to make it far easier on the eyes. I cannot think of any reason why aedmin would value Fka's 30+ combat multis which are Free accounts and to tell the 50 paying real players to just screw off. That makes no sense and it would quite possibly represent the final nail in AE coffin.

I am not complaining that my account is a piece of junk or that my guild is losing. In the past, people have criticized me for verbally grilling and killing people on servers that I didn't play. That is a fair criticism, but it is not relevant now. I paid for this mic, deal with it.

I'd like to send a simple message to the admins and to programmers still in the community.

I've been around AE since at least Beta and I've seen how the game has evolved. There was a time when using greasemonkey, aebits, ori and other minor script was the biggest form of cheating that could get you banned but those times don't even compare to what it is now.

There are less commercial/community oriented programmers playing the game these days - I mean programmers willing to share their programs to the community. Now we have greedy self-centered "industrial scale" cheats like Fkbank that create programs for themselves only so it makes it even more difficult to compete. These things are not hidden, it's obvious and from my understanding there is just one admin assigned to look into these cases.

My point is, the game is being taken over by greedy bot users now. Bots that can build as many accounts as possible. It's not about scouting a galaxy or auto-launch or a build helper script no it's about building a multi army these days and the admins can't detect anything.

Admins you need to figure a way to curb these cheats. If you have someone who could be responsive handling these cases, there would be a head way.

Also, I want to appeal to all programmers still playing this game to develop tools for the community that could match these bot users while we wait for the admins to act.


Now about this thread, Traveler (Amon Ra) was the first to spam DMTNT with this senseless message:

[STARK] Amon Ra Reply - Copy Savebox - Block Player - Report 11 Nov 2016, 08:41:47
I want you guys to join me. Not all of you, but some.

[TheRealTraveler]

Now about this thread, Traveler (Amon Ra) was the first to spam DMTNT with this senseless message:
[STARK] Amon Ra Reply - Copy Savebox - Block Player - Report 11 Nov 2016, 08:41:47
I want you guys to join me. Not all of you, but some.

Two people is probably not considered spamming by anyone, tbh.

[Sean Likes Pandas]

Well I can tell you that my message prolly reaped a lot bigger results than your's.