Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

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Aergistal
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Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby Aergistal » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 16:30

This is an invitation for all Beta server players to an open discussion about the future of our server.

I want this server to be again like in the old good times. A server capable to give us a nice gaming experience. Other old servers have around 350 members left, many of them inactive. Beta is dying too and we must try to save it, to attract new players here.

My proposal is to make a Beta Pact between all guilds and to establish a server ROE anyone can agree with.

I have few examples:
- war declarations and CF on this forum;
- fair wars only between guilds/alliances of similar fleet size;
- one unshielded unit on occupied bases;
- nobody steal occs;
- TR are free game;
- unguilded players and 1 member guilds are free game;
- guild pacts posted on the guild profiles.

Please post here any ideas you consider useful for the server to become healthy again. Merci.

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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby Mr IC » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 17:56

GL HF

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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby Jeck » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 18:11

Are we talking about occs after a war or just occs in general? Other then that one question I agree with ROE!

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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby ronn123 » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 18:21

I woukd support such a move

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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby LiveFire32 » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 18:32

Are you feeling OK?

This is the first time in a years, you wrote me something, NOT trying to get me to do something other than join -PM-(oh that's tight...Borg now).
Finally something useful.

So what you are suggesting is Alpha Rules.

I am in full support of this.
- war declarations and CF on this forum; -Check (should b 24 - 48 hour notice)
- fair wars only between guilds/alliances of similar fleet size; -Check (A larger guild should be allowed to declare on multiple guilds)
- one unshielded unit on occupied bases; -(Can be determined on the predetermined ROE mutually agreed upon by all interested parties)
- nobody steal occs; -This should be a given (Could also be determined in the ROE)
- TR are free game; - Externals - yes, -Internals Dependent upon predetermined and agreed upon ROE
- unguilded players and 1 member guilds are free game; -are they really any different than an un-guilded?
- guild pacts posted on the guild profiles.

Additionally:
War declarations and Cease fires. Check (should b 24 - 48 hour notice)
Predetermined time limits determined in War Declaration(Can be extended or ended upon mutual agreement of all parties)


This worked on Alpha, I don't see why it couldn't work here.
To many players on this server have simply given up on building fleet, because they know they wont ever have a chance to use it.
These rules will give them the chance to grow and use their fleets as the game intended.

In order to maintain peace, one must prepare for war.
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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby Destroyer of Worlds » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 19:10

As one of the GMs of GODS, I am not against the idea of some kind of pact after some serious discussions. However I just don't think it would happen. I simply don't see FAIL disbanding and all their players going back to their homes guilds (FAIL, S3D, and DDoS) plus whatever other guilds that merged into them.

I'm not trying to start any kind of argument or anything like that, I just don't simply see it happening. There's not enough trust left in this server for something like this to happen. FAIL & Company don't trust us and our side simply doesn't trust FAIL.

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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby teverclear » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 20:02

well thats it then men we have the answer. reset the server all bases and structures are added to base discounts all tech will be carried over all fleet will go into a new kind of credit called fleet credit where its not credits on hand so noone has stupid pillages right off the bat cause they cant hide credits into researches yet. u cant add to fleet credits when there gone there gone. commanders are carried over also since this game doesnt like to credit back experiance

then we can all start on a clean slate and bash eachother to hell all over again

(im sure i typoed somewhere im not an english major deal with it)

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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby Mr IC » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 20:46

Destroyer of Worlds wrote:I simply don't see FAIL disbanding and all their players going back to their homes guilds (FAIL, S3D, and DDoS) plus whatever other guilds that merged into them.

Well I'm pretty sure that New years eve last year, your side PH'd a neutral guild that decided to leave FAIL. So why would they ever disband if that's what happens?

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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby Awol » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 21:24

It is possible, but it would require work and motivation. I doubt that there are enough active players left on the server to motivate leadership to do anything.

Trust isn't necessary so long as you build in verification and in the end if the game improves leadership would be less likely to jeopardize it.

Beside all of that much bigger things would have to happen than what is proposed here. Rules of war and occupations barely scratch the surface. Without putting to much thought into it feels like the server needs small active and independent guilds capped somewhere between 10 and 20 players with 1 larger neutral guild as a safe house for new players, recently zeroed players and anyone else who may not fit into one of the small active guilds. The larger neutral guild could be tasked with enforcing established pacts & DOWs between the smaller guilds and stationed on or near WHs. Another suggestion would be to deal with WHs in general. Perhaps they should only be used by guilds that are not engaged in war with a buffer of 7 days or so.

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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby Jason_PT » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 23:23

- war declarations and CF on this forum;
This is not Alpha
- fair wars only between guilds/alliances of similar fleet size;
Not enough guilds to make it work
- one unshielded unit on occupied bases;
Should be already in practice, in your case seems more a excuse to escape the perma-occ BOB is doing...
by hand of players :lol:
- nobody steal occs;
Don't throw stones when you have glass ceilings
- TR are free game;
Done
- unguilded players and 1 member guilds are free game;
LOL really? Done
- guild pacts posted on the guild profiles.
Spies can do that with less effort.

*************************************************************
We SS/GODS/BLOOD have been playing, FAIL have been running and feeding themselfs with "family" (SFC/PM/PLOT) and others.

PM are suffering the consequences of lack of respect, respect that BOB and me have, even despite we hit each other now.

Plain and simple, DoW said it well. I don't trust Kahar and family, have no reasons to.
Kahar insisted with SS leadership when we worked together, to chase to extinction CHAOS/BLOOD and THOG alliance, Karanga and well decided that he was wrong, and i fully agree'ed.

The next crash if any occurs in Beta will determine who wins.
I don't speak for BLOOD and GODS, but has far SS goes, ppl have my skype if they want to discuss anything.
Till then..........

GL BOB give them hell.

Unless stated otherwise, my forum posts express my personal view/opinions non-related to my guild.
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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby Pancho_Villa » Sat 02 Jan, 2016 00:02

When SS is souped I can quit this ridiculous game.

Death to the Space Nazi's and the ilk that hangs with them.

Other than that I don't care. Whatever the Bot works out is fine with me.

McCloud wrote:I hope someone farms you off of alpha.
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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby lord ramrod » Sat 02 Jan, 2016 01:19

This post by you Aergistal made me properly LOL!!!!

is it do as you say and not as you do?

you break every one of your suggested rules and then when your fleet is gone and moral is low in your guild you try this crap because you didnt have the gumption to solve it in the 6 or 7 previous chances you where given.

I will only finish with this, please see fit to read into it

Cee U Next Tuesday! :dance:

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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby Awol » Sat 02 Jan, 2016 02:44

Jason Voorhees wrote:- war declarations and CF on this forum;
This is not Alpha
- fair wars only between guilds/alliances of similar fleet size;
Not enough guilds to make it work
- one unshielded unit on occupied bases;
Should be already in practice, in your case seems more a excuse to escape the perma-occ BOB is doing...
by hand of players :lol:
- nobody steal occs;
Don't throw stones when you have glass ceilings
- TR are free game;
Done
- unguilded players and 1 member guilds are free game;
LOL really? Done
- guild pacts posted on the guild profiles.
Spies can do that with less effort.

*************************************************************
We SS/GODS/BLOOD have been playing, FAIL have been running and feeding themselfs with "family" (SFC/PM/PLOT) and others.

PM are suffering the consequences of lack of respect, respect that BOB and me have, even despite we hit each other now.

Plain and simple, DoW said it well. I don't trust Kahar and family, have no reasons to.
Kahar insisted with SS leadership when we worked together, to chase to extinction CHAOS/BLOOD and THOG alliance, Karanga and well decided that he was wrong, and i fully agree'ed.

The next crash if any occurs in Beta will determine who wins.
I don't speak for BLOOD and GODS, but has far SS goes, ppl have my skype if they want to discuss anything.
Till then..........

GL BOB give them hell.


Jason, you know as well as anyone that everyone in this game, even you, have done things which discredit and make them untrustworthy. That doesn't mean we can't move forward. Kahar isn't nearly the devil you think he is and even if he were we could still work something out. Like I said you don't need trust, you need an enforcement mechanism (large nuetral guild) and a verification mechanism (observers visiting eachothers guilds).

Implement 10 member caps on all guilds, guilds have to be independent unless involved in agreed upon wars following a valid DOW. All left over players, (partially actives, recently zeroed, new players, and those that don't fit into active guilds) populate the only large guild on the server which will set up shop at WH systems and play the role of enforcer. leadership of the nuetral guild would be a rotation of players who believe in the server pact and represent both of the current "sides" of the server.

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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby Oldbuck2 » Sat 02 Jan, 2016 03:43

IMHO, the problems on the server all have two common sources. And all the proposed solutions conveniently bypass both of them.

1. Guilds have gotten too large. Given the size, the playing field has become unwieldy and uncompetitive. The clear solution is to limit the size of guilds. The approach could be to start with the size of the largest Guild, [Fail], and reduce the maximum allowed size by 20 every two weeks until we reach a level more reasonable for the population of the server. That level can be decided by game admin with the input of the players. Should the Guilds fail to comply voluntarily, admin can enforce the rule by lopping off the lowest level players in the largest guild(s) until they become equal in numbers.

2. Distorting the advantages of the largest guild is the existence of "multis", players operating more than one account. This seems to be obvious to everyone EXCEPT game admin. Admin should open itself to input from the player base on who the multi accounts are and take action to enforce the game rules ASAP.

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Re: Beta Pact 2016 - The last attempt to save the Beta Server

Postby Awol » Sat 02 Jan, 2016 05:08

How can you say that the proposed solutions bypass the problems and then follow up with a solution that has already been proposed?

the existence, and combined perceived existence of multis has always existed and always will no matter what is done. Smaller guilds held to independence and only allowed to war after valid recognized DOWs addresses the problem about as well as it can be addressed.

You should know that the "largest guild" is not the only guild on the server that is perceived to be using multis. And one definition of largest guild is not universally accepted as the only definition of largest guild. I've been around 9 years now and i've never counted the number of players as the most important measure of the size of a guild.

So here is my proposal with slightly more thought.

1. Guild sizes capped at 15 members (these guilds should be made up of active players which means only a short time would need to be allotted for their creation)
2. 1 Neutral guild is formed that all players who are not in an active 15 member guild will join. If player cap is reached the guild will be an alliance of 2 guilds.
3. The Neutral guild will set up shop near a WH and not engage in wars but police actions against groups who violate rules of independence which will need to be clear/simple
4. The neutral guild will also be tasked with enforcing terms of DOWs and CF agreements
5. All other guilds would only be permitted to use WHs while during peace time and would not be permitted to participate in a war within 7 days of WH travel.
6. Rules similar to what has been proposed by Aerg governing rules of engagement, rules of war and holding of occupations would be drafted and again need to be clear/simple
7. all players outside the newly created active guilds and neutral guilds are fair game (should be outlined in rules of engagement but necessary to encourage people to move into sanctioned guilds)
8 simple rules of guild hopping would have to be drafted but the cap should be maintained.
9 Neutral guild leadership should rotate and include representation from both of the two current "sides" that dominate the server.

something like this could work but only if it is not over complicated.

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