Defense Guide 2.0 (Early + Late Game)

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ElfLeaderMike
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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby ElfLeaderMike » Mon 01 Dec, 2008 18:29

TimNeilson wrote:
Emperor_Jackal wrote:
TehJar wrote:It almost makes it a lot less practical to use massive fighters to kill the rings, which is possible for the larger players on servers after a certain age.


Not really. If you hit a ringed base with mass fighters, enough to one-shot occ it, you will only lose around 8 fighters for every level of shields. But when you don't have enough units to one-shot the base, it becomes bad because prings sap 'Health' from the pshields after every attack.


that's why he's saying it makes it less practical. it takes about 500k fighters to one-shot a level of PS, iirc.


He was talking about massive fighters, which should be over that amount.

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby The_AnkLe_BiTeR » Tue 02 Dec, 2008 00:42

PS= makes them bring more fleet to hit the base. Nothing more, when they up the sheild level on them it really boned the low level players.

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby Nextotus » Sat 10 Jan, 2009 22:34

Nobody has really given much discussion to fleet configurations for defense however. Cruisers or hc's would be my biggest question? what about before you can make dreads? etc. any configuration suggestions would be great. thnx.

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby TimNeilson » Sun 11 Jan, 2009 04:42

before you get dreads, fighters with a couple battleships thrown in to prevent people from just fighter dropping to take the trades. don't use cruisers or HCs.

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby dcns3 » Thu 12 Feb, 2009 18:17

Good job. I am finding this very useful!

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby LordCOTA » Wed 01 Apr, 2009 06:46

For a defensive fleet, 10k fighters and 1 dread or 3 dreads. Dreads aren't very good for offense, too fragile in real combat, but they make good defenses to prevent fighter drops and TR plunder, and they are also talented at holding occupations with little upkeep. (this is admittedly more applicable when occupying UC's, but it works on some players too.)

For defenses, 2 levels of pshields and then as many prings as you can get. (But prioritize the prings, the shields can come after level 2 rings are up.)

That's really all you need to know. You strive for the above. Before prings/shields, two levels of your best turret or best two turrets. After prings, all of that other stuff is a waste of space and energy.

And I suppose I should add that before dreads, a few battleships might be applicable as defense, but I used straight fighters with good defenses at that level and it never did me wrong.

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby SaltUbar » Thu 16 Apr, 2009 23:41

[quote="
These defenses are some of the best defenses, but that doesn't mean your all set yet. You still need basic fleet on your planet in order to stop attacks. Even if you have 5 Prings on your planet, if you don't have any fleet you are at a major disadvantage. Your trade routes are now available for people to pirate unless you have at least 1 fighter or ship at your base.

For fleet, there is truely only one defense ship: Fighters

Fighters are the most efficient ship in the AE world. Though, it goes exactly vice cersa. If you have 10k fighters but no turrets/shields, then your base can get dread/titan smashed. So all in all, you have to have a nice balance of fleet and turrets/shields to be efficent.

[/quote]

Hi Guys,

My astro has recently been pillaged, however I have 1 dred, 1 BS, 20 dest and 1000 fighters but no turrets. My understanding from what I have read is that this is not possible but I would be open to Titan and Dred attachs.

Can someone shed some light on this thanks.

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby MKR » Thu 23 Apr, 2009 17:36

Fleet will stop trade route pillage, but not base pillage. If someone wrecks your fleet and takes the base, it can be pillaged.

And with no turrets, your fleet is an easy target. :)

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby Sadiver » Tue 14 Jul, 2009 15:28

Thanks for this guide.... now I know what to keep in mind when I upgrade.

GREAT post

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby Kamikaze BDE Alpha » Thu 23 Jul, 2009 11:51

If you have at least 2 pshields and 2 prings, is it better to have a few ion and disrupter turrets?

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby Hypernova » Thu 06 Aug, 2009 08:43

Thanks Thats really good...Nice Work

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby Wlerin » Sun 18 Oct, 2009 01:15

Kamikaze BDE Alpha wrote:If you have at least 2 pshields and 2 prings, is it better to have a few ion and disrupter turrets?


Not Disruptor, they sap too much armour* from the larger turrets after each combat, and Disruptor isn't a very useful tech (i.e. why did you research level 2???) If you can spare the space, a few Ion turrets will distract fighters on larger drops, and they don't drain very much armour.

*Turret Regeneration Explained

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby lingering » Mon 02 Nov, 2009 03:09

ok so I have been playing for a week, and the guide is almost exactly perfect for what i wanted, but what would really help is on top of the "end game" fleet defence example would be to have a few stages added:

Defence Fleet - Day 10 / Lvl 15 -20, etc

So we can see where we need to grow, cheers.

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby Wlerin » Mon 02 Nov, 2009 03:27

lingering wrote:ok so I have been playing for a week, and the guide is almost exactly perfect for what i wanted, but what would really help is on top of the "end game" fleet defence example would be to have a few stages added:

Defence Fleet - Day 10 / Lvl 15 -20, etc

So we can see where we need to grow, cheers.


A more important consideration is individual base economy. You need to figure out how much power you need at the base to protect the base's economy (pillage + pillage bonus), trade routes, and the debris your fleet will create.

E-Space Society has an excellent defense guide that covers these concepts very well, though the specifics are off--use your own numbers for defense and fleet power (his are skewed toward the high end, at which point you don't even *need* the turrets of which he speaks), and ignore the whole "Shields" section. (It's wrong. The examples are real but the explanation is way off.)

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Re: Defense Ships and Turrets, The Up And Downs (Now Completed)

Postby LesCrow » Tue 22 Jun, 2010 06:32

THE TURTLES GUIDE TO DEFENSE: The ups and downs(Now Completed)


fix'd


I read majority of it and browsed through the rest, good effort but im sorry to say this is fail.

"Generally for lv x-x"

POINT- Defenses aren't built in relation to your level or expertise but they are built in relation to base econ. This explanation is also the singular explanation that disputes every last thing you've written here

"These are nice for the generally average player"

"Point" holds true, are you saying that an average player should put DTs on his base even if the econ is 5 or 200?


"10,000+ Fighters
150+ Cruisers
5+ Battle Ships (Or substitute with a dread)
10/10 Disrupter
5/5 Pshield
5/5 Pring
10+ Command Centers"

wow just wow

You do realize that with a sequential attack all your load there will be turned to derbs right? theres a reason why dreads are used. Gar and i did the math, we wanted to know why dreads and not titans or BS or HC and it became clear, based on damage distribution a lone dread or 2(when LDs are like 5) will not absorb to much damage and the base defenses will take their share, i wont explain the logic but you just use battle calcs or get your hands on quitters account and try the scenario, as long as you can make dreads use only them. Of course when your in a stronghold things are different.
And them theres 10 CCs, any noob out there should heed my words CCs are good only for occupation, as long as your not occupying anybody or you don't plan to, don't build CCs. They're only good for occupation and swarming the carriers of attackers as they are dropping fighters on your base and that is not likely not enough to justify using up the space for CC, chances are that if your getting attacked then you lack the adequate defenses for the situation in your galaxy so fix that rather than wasting creds on CCs.

Basically tho the amount of defenses you'll need is a very complex topic don't just teach people to turtle unnecessarily. Ill say this
base econ determines pillage
pillage determines profitability
and the point of defenses is to negate profitability
so econ is a major factor in defenses and your guide seems to neglect it completely (your misleading newbies)
earlier mentioned situation
in some cases defenses are not even necessary but once it gets to turtling(building an unprecendented amount of defenses) indefinitely the bells of relocating should be ringing. You need to expand these guides to give newbs real knowledge and the math is also essential.

I spoke with treason on the matter since my post was getting longer than i had originally planned and rather than arrange it into a presentable post i got more idea as we spoke about it, this would be longer but i would end up writing my own guide and i'm pretty anti-WoT so this is all your gonna get.

Lastly some advice. If your going to write a defensive guide then tell people base pillages and how much of what each level of a defense can kill so they can reason it out themselves as to what amount of defenses they'll need. Anybody who cant reason that out is never going to develop in ae as at some point you need to reason things out on your own in order to do well in ae. Guides must be logical and mathematical otherwise in a game like ae they're useless.

Redo this guide


P.S There probably are a lot of mistakes in my post but the logic is mostly sound so as long as you can make sense of my bs you're good.

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