Extensive guide to fleet building and fleet types.

[Arjani]

Good job writing a very nice guide. It's rare to see a guide written by someone who actually knows what they're talking about Some comments:

• Under the description of frigates, I'd add high speed as one of their primary attractions.
• Dropper fleets can be optionally accompanied by any finisher really, not just HC. For example I pair up my FT swarm with FR.
• I would also throw in another variant of the frigate fleet: pure FT + FR, with no accompanying carrier units. Pure FT/FR is a relatively popular spec for high ranking players who can maintain a large enough FR fleet to offset their lower-than-usual hangar capacity. (Personally I've tried it and found the low FT to be rather limiting, but others feel differently.)
• For the FT/BO/FR variant, I'd add that one of the main attractions of throwing in BO is so that you can use BO instead of FT for dropping out unshieldeds. With double the power of FT but the same hangar requirement, using BO means you save a lot of hangar space. You'd only need to maintain just enough FT to act as meatshield for your finishing hits, and you won't need to tech laser at all since meatshield units don't need power.
• One technical correction: frigates are not good meatshield for HC. Mixing FR + HC will decrease your overall ratio, not increase it. FR does make a good meatshield for BS though.
• In the description of dreads, you might want to specify that by "defence" you mean putting up a dread or 2 on each base to defend trades, since they are hard to strip.
• The main use of titans late-game is to act as meatshield in certain calculated levi hits. It wouldn't hurt for a heavy levistacker to carry a few titans around.

Are you planning to provide more detailed specs for HC/BS fleets? I really like the descriptions and spec variants you provided for dropper/frigate/cruiser fleets.

I've always told my younger players to have atleast 1-2k HC's in there fleet, just to remain unlevirapable. Which is what happens to most newer players as is.

If you need a small accompanying fleet to prevent levi-rapes, IMO BS would be better because of the ease with which they kill levis. A mere 150-200 BS would deter most levistacks.




Oh, some random thoughts about an HC fleet: I think the all-round best soloing fleet would be FT/HB/DE/HC/FC.

You pair up FT/DE for small hits on CR/HC fleets for great ratios, and throw in HC when you need to make a big hit. The HB drops out CR/HC - (1) when they're on high CCs, (2) when they're in a capital fleet that you want to HC-finish, (3) when they're in an FT-heavy fleet that you want to shield-rape.

This spec should be able to solo almost any fleet spec for decent ratios, while remaining relatively specialised This is all just my speculation though, since I've never actually tried running a fleet like this.

[kleus]

@Cowbacca That's true, i think i'll add that. But as i said in the guide, it isn't a bible, just some guidelines But i might just add it, thanks

@Jimmy77j In fact having 1-2k HCs in your fleet is, most likely, not enough to keep it from being levied... You see, while those numbers are enough to shoot 1 levi (200k) if the levis can one shot your fleet, it will most likely give of more than 200k in debris. That means it won't make the fleet unleviable, will just make the attacker lose 1 levi. It all depends ofc, if the attacker has only 6-7levis he won't have much luck derbing that fleet, but you'll have to count on the worse case scenario. So you'll want to grow the numbers of HCs with the size of your fleet, and not just stop at 1-2k. Ofc, another option are battleships.

[Jimmy777J]

@Jimmy77j In fact having 1-2k HCs in your fleet is, most likely, not enough to keep it from being levied... You see, while those numbers are enough to shoot 1 levi (200k) if the levis can one shot your fleet, it will most likely give of more than 200k in debris. That means it won't make the fleet unleviable, will just make the attacker lose 1 levi. It all depends ofc, if the attacker has only 6-7levis he won't have much luck derbing that fleet, but you'll have to count on the worse case scenario. So you'll want to grow the numbers of HCs with the size of your fleet, and not just stop at 1-2k. Ofc, another option are battleships.

Yes but with no HC's/BS they will be completly raped. While its true it only may eliminate a couple levis, it will deter most (unless you end up with your fleet top heavy). Ultimatly you should always increase you HC/BS cover as you grow. But again, to build non will have great consequenses. Thus it should be mentioned in both.

[kleus]

@Arjani Sorry i missed your post last night. Thanks for the reply. Well i remember using hcs with frigates last year sucessfully. Maybe they changed it, i gotta do some battlecalc'in on the matter. About HCs and BSs, it's where i have the least experience, but shouldn't be too hard so i might get it done as soon as i have the time.

[Crazed_One]

Just got around to reading it and have these comments after reading:
- First of all, excellent guide. Most people don't devote as much time as you do, and I applaud you for that.
- I find there are two types of droppers, those who go pure FTs, and those that also include HBs. If you are going to HBs, you usually want to go the whole way and use HCs, as you want to put that Plasma tech to use. However, if you're using pure FTs there is no need for Plasma, so you can cut out a whole tech. Plus, w/o HBs, you can have more FTs, and you will be able to FT Swarm targets more efficiently more quickly.
- As far as CR Fleets go, I find it most important to keep Plasma and Shielding high above all, as late-game CRs can effectively rape FTs if well-teched. I also find it very useful to include HBs in my CR Fleet.
- More top players use HC Stacks, and there is a reason for that; they are very effective. I have found there are several types of HC Fleets as well:
-- Pure HCs: 80% HCs/20% RCs, with a few FTs to fill the hangars. This fleet is perfect for taking down large levi stacks, raping FT fleets, and is deadly in a blob crash. Plus, you only need to focus in Shielding for the most part, although it is still a good idea to keep a high armor and plasma.
-- Armored Plasma: FTs/ either CVs or DEs/HBs/HCs/FCs. This combo is very useful for a lot of things, they can HB Drop, and HC Finish, for a pretty good ratio. They mostly need to keep Plasma extremely high. They are basically the opposite of the other HC Spec.
- I gather that BS Stacks are basically extremely specialized HC's. They take out levis more efficiently, and they can take down FT-Fortresses. They can also be combined with Frigates, and used pretty effectively. Every good guild has a competent HC Stacker, as they are a necessity when dealing with Levis.

Hope my input will be useful. I tried to restrict my comments to fleet types that I've used to success before.

[Morfraen]

Do people really specialize tech like that? Can't see it making a huge diff later in the game where you're only going to get an extra 2-3 levels over someone who keeps all tech up.

[Crazed_One]

Do people really specialize tech like that? Can't see it making a huge diff later in the game where you're only going to get an extra 2-3 levels over someone who keeps all tech up.

On newer servers people do.

[Morfraen]

Do people really specialize tech like that? Can't see it making a huge diff later in the game where you're only going to get an extra 2-3 levels over someone who keeps all tech up.

On newer servers people do.

ah, ya suppose it'd make a bigger difference in the 1st couple years having tachyon from the start.

[Arjani]

-- Pure HCs: 80% HCs/20% RCs, with a few FTs to fill the hangars. This fleet is perfect for taking down large levi stacks, raping FT fleets, and is deadly in a blob crash. Plus, you only need to focus in Shielding for the most part, although it is still a good idea to keep a high armor and plasma.

I have very rarely seen a "pure HC" spec, and never seen it in the hands of a top ranking player... it sounds like an extremely vulnerable and rather useless fleet. You won't have enough FT even to meatshield your hits (1 HC = 48 base armour, 8 FT = 16 base armour only, so you would run out of FT if you tried to hit anything other than targets much smaller than yourself), and you'll be a very easy kill for frigateers.

I think a fleet like that would only be useful for raping huge FT swarms, and if that's what you want to do, you'll still need FC to move off your FT so you can rape.

Do people really specialize tech like that? Can't see it making a huge diff later in the game where you're only going to get an extra 2-3 levels over someone who keeps all tech up.

On newer servers people do.

ah, ya suppose it'd make a bigger difference in the 1st couple years having tachyon from the start.

And also because funds are limited. Saving a few hundred thousand credits by skipping a tech you won't use makes a huge difference during the first year of your account, while later on everything is so expensive you'll barely feel it.

[Crazed_One]

-- Pure HCs: 80% HCs/20% RCs, with a few FTs to fill the hangars. This fleet is perfect for taking down large levi stacks, raping FT fleets, and is deadly in a blob crash. Plus, you only need to focus in Shielding for the most part, although it is still a good idea to keep a high armor and plasma.

I have very rarely seen a "pure HC" spec, and never seen it in the hands of a top ranking player... it sounds like an extremely vulnerable and rather useless fleet. You won't have enough FT even to meatshield your hits (1 HC = 48 base armour, 8 FT = 16 base armour only, so you would run out of FT if you tried to hit anything other than targets much smaller than yourself), and you'll be a very easy kill for frigateers.

I think a fleet like that would only be useful for raping huge FT swarms, and if that's what you want to do, you'll still need FC to move off your FT so you can rape.

Good point about the FCs, as I do have a just a few for my FTs on H, and I know of two good players in 5150 going with the spec. Although you really don't need more than that per guild. As far as most top players using it, I was talking more about HCs in general. That one spec is very rare.

[kleus]

HC stacking is extremelly usefull in the beggining of the game. Later i'm assuming we will see HCs + de+ ft or some other combination.

@ Crazed_one, thanks for the reply. I agree with you except in one thing. HCs are way more specialized than BS, because what HCs does BSs can also do (though with slightly lower ratios) and BSs can do lots of other things that HCs can't do. Like raping small fleets, shield raping more units, ability to effectivelly destroy capitals etc.

[Crazed_One]

HC stacking is extremely useful in the beginning of the game. Later I'm assuming we will see HC + DE + FT or some other combination.

@ Crazed_one, thanks for the reply. I agree with you except in one thing. HCs are way more specialized than BS, because what HCs does BSs can also do (though with slightly lower ratios) and BSs can do lots of other things that HCs can't do. Like raping small fleets, shield raping more units, ability to effectivelly destroy capitals etc.

Sorry, I inverted it, oops >.< I totally agree with you in that regard.

[Ikari]

Not bad, not bad at all

Moved to Tutorials and guides.

[Aussiekid]

Not bad, not bad at all

Moved to Tutorials and guides.

Congrats!

[tragicmishap]

Excellent guide! I would also say that you underestimate HC stacks in the endgame. When I started three years ago HCs were the dominant fleet build but CR were in the process of overtaking them. For a very long time CR dominated. Then within the last year or so several other fleet specializations started gaining in popularity like Levi and more recently BS. Fs and HBs also grew steadily in importance. Recently HC stacks have been making a comeback.

We had a guy with 100k HCs in our guild and I think he had less than 1 mil fighters and some CV and DE for damage spread. Telling you, you can get 3:1 ratios even against CR fleets if they have a lot of fighters. Early in the game people just used HC as the killer unit and had damage spread units with them. The comeback of the HC is using it as a large stack and naked against fleets with lots of fighters. Devastating.