Fleet Build/Combat Guide

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby OG Kush » Fri 07 Feb, 2014 02:35

That is a great question. I Don't have a valid answer. I do however have a great example:


2 CV vs 1 Frigate= 2 dead CV and a fresh frigate

2 CV vs 1 CR = 2 dead CV and a damaged CR

For why? indeed.

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Whis » Fri 07 Feb, 2014 02:52

AE > RL

It is what it is, shielded units get damaged. But un-shielded units survive or don't.

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby LesCrow » Fri 07 Feb, 2014 03:06

Seems a bit abstract though, just thought there'd have to be some reason for it being what it is.

EX: (-o-)/DS(G), SPORK/LOVE(H), I: WL/AUDI(I), UFP/1st(J), SoT(K), DREAM(L)WL(M).
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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Whis » Fri 07 Feb, 2014 03:35

I actually think it may have something to do with cost of the unit and figuring cost of repair. Smaller units mean smaller repair costs, but also mean a repair cost may end up being x.5 credits.

Actually there aren't any shielded units with a cost less than 120 come to think of it.

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby OG Kush » Fri 07 Feb, 2014 16:27

Frigs are pro at manuevers! They kill the CV and dodge it's shots. Them clunky CR's just go straight at them and end up getting shot a bit :D

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby SilverKnight » Fri 07 Feb, 2014 23:35

LesCrow wrote:'Tis an appropriate place to ask this, right?

Why is it that unshielded units don't take damage? They are either completely healthy or destroyed, no in between.


that is how it is set up... unshielded don't get to be partial. they either live fully or die fully.

The shields is what permits partial survival of ships.

never saw a partial Ion frigate however...

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Wlerin » Fri 07 Feb, 2014 23:57

I believe that there are two reasons: Shielding and Armour.

No Partial Damage:
2-12 armour.
No shielding, or 1 shielding.

The smallest damage a fighter (2 power) could do to a Frigate (12 armour) is greater than 0.1 Frigate (barring vastly different techs). Further, since the Frigate has no shields it takes direct damage from everything. In combination this means that tracking partial damage serves no purpose, as it takes a trivial amount of fleet to do permanent damage to Frigates and under.

Ion Frigates are basically modified Frigates and follow the same rules, though in this case one could perhaps make a weak argument for partial damage.

One Decimal Partial Damage:
24-48 armour
2-4 shielding

These units have more armour, and 0.1 damage represents a larger chunk of armour here than it does for smaller units. Further, their shields are high enough to reduce the damage of some combat units to all or mostly bleedthrough, meaning many thousands of such units might be required to kill one ship without partial damage. Partial damage allows for some semi-permanent damage to be done in such cases.

Two Decimals Partial Damage:
96+ armour
6+ Shielding

These units have lots (some lots and lots) of armour. A single 0.01 chunk of a Dreadnought's armour is larger than a corvette. True, for the smallest units in this category such armour chunks are trivial, but there is also their high shielding to consider. Many more ships must resort to bleedthrough to harm them, and so the size of a significant chunk of armour is much lower than for that of say, a Frigate.

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby LesCrow » Sat 08 Feb, 2014 01:59

Wlerin wrote:I believe that there are two reasons: Shielding and Armour.

No Partial Damage:
2-12 armour.
No shielding, or 1 shielding.

The smallest damage a fighter (2 power) could do to a Frigate (12 armour) is greater than 0.1 Frigate (barring vastly different techs).


So? 0.1 is not some magic number, shouldn't be a problem just because we can't have it.

Wlerin wrote:Further, since the Frigate has no shields it takes direct damage from everything.


True, but I don't see why that matters.

Wlerin wrote:In combination this means that tracking partial damage serves no purpose, as it takes a trivial amount of fleet to do permanent damage to Frigates and under.


I don't understand how you came to that conclusion. You can argue that it is trivial in the late game so it doesn't matter, but then why bother with the difference at all and it is not trivial in the early game. If it doesn't pose any difficulty or complicate something somewhere I don't see any reason to bother with the difference?

Wlerin wrote:Ion Frigates are basically modified Frigates and follow the same rules, though in this case one could perhaps make a weak argument for partial damage.

One Decimal Partial Damage:
24-48 armour
2-4 shielding

These units have more armour, and 0.1 damage represents a larger chunk of armour here than it does for smaller units. Further, their shields are high enough to reduce the damage of some combat units to all or mostly bleedthrough, meaning many thousands of such units might be required to kill one ship without partial damage. Partial damage allows for some semi-permanent damage to be done in such cases.

Two Decimals Partial Damage:
96+ armour
6+ Shielding

These units have lots (some lots and lots) of armour. A single 0.01 chunk of a Dreadnought's armour is larger than a corvette. True, for the smallest units in this category such armour chunks are trivial, but there is also their high shielding to consider. Many more ships must resort to bleedthrough to harm them, and so the size of a significant chunk of armour is much lower than for that of say, a Frigate.


Sure, that explains why they have it but not why it has been removed on the lesser ships. Thanks for the help though, but I think it would have to pose some kind of difficulty in the mechanics, something that escapes my imagination completely or maybe Wizard just made the judgement to do it this way, I personally expect its the latter.

EX: (-o-)/DS(G), SPORK/LOVE(H), I: WL/AUDI(I), UFP/1st(J), SoT(K), DREAM(L)WL(M).
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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Wlerin » Sat 08 Feb, 2014 03:53

Nothing was removed, they've never taken partial damage. On the contrary, partial damage was added to larger ships because they were too powerful:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=884


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