Fleet Build/Combat Guide

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Cowbacca » Fri 06 Aug, 2010 12:08

Evil Wabbit wrote:
Cowbacca wrote:The main use of a HC fleet is shield-raping. =P

Some, but there are many times when it is not the use of a HC fleet to shield-rape.

The only other time is attacking a Levi stack. Adding in CV/DE makes you lose about 10% less, but you have to spend 4 times the amount that you save on getting the CV/DE in the first place, money which could be being spent on more HCs. In the example I used, with no CV/DE, the profit ratio was 2.89 and with it was 3.18, you ended up paying 22% of your profit to increase your profit ratio by 10% (or actual profit by 2.5%), which in actual numbers was 2 mil spent for an extra 300k profit. So investing in CV/DE gets you only 1.15 times your investment as a total return (depending on tech obviously). In AE terms, that's not a particularly good investment.

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Yupi » Fri 06 Aug, 2010 13:38

I think adding CV/DE depends on how often you attack. If you don't attack often, and you want to make your ratios look pretty, build a minimal amount of them. If you attack often, you'll want to rebuild HC faster. Either way, you don't want a lot of CV/DE.

Also requesting that the IF Fail report be removed, at least from the frigate section. Frigate fleets and IF fleets are two completely different specs and should not be compared to each other.

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Evil Wabbit » Fri 06 Aug, 2010 17:38

Yupi wrote:I think adding CV/DE depends on how often you attack. If you don't attack often, and you want to make your ratios look pretty, build a minimal amount of them. If you attack often, you'll want to rebuild HC faster. Either way, you don't want a lot of CV/DE.

Also requesting that the IF Fail report be removed, at least from the frigate section. Frigate fleets and IF fleets are two completely different specs and should not be compared to each other.

They are the same class of ship, just different weapons. They go together. I'm currently looking for an IF Win report.

@ Cowbaca - you also forgot to mention shooting BS/DN/TI stacks and some lone DSs, busting prings... So once you look at it like that, then adding in CV/DE raises your profit by quite a bit.

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Yupi » Fri 06 Aug, 2010 19:14

Evil Wabbit wrote:They are the same class of ship, just different weapons. They go together. I'm currently looking for an IF Win report.

No, they're not. If anything, IFs belong more in the HC class, because they get ratios similar to HCs and are good against anything HC+.

As for IF win, define win. A perfect ratio? A leviathan stack made fun of? Or just general stuff?

http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... 9C4B50CEF0
http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... 5B4BF74976

http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... 244C376039
http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... 0C4C376044
http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... C44C37604E

http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... D74B67AC98

http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... EA4A88BADA (Not mine)

Edit: I met two other IF stackers on the forums here, but I can't find their reports. ~

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Cowbacca » Fri 06 Aug, 2010 19:27

Evil Wabbit wrote:
Yupi wrote:I think adding CV/DE depends on how often you attack. If you don't attack often, and you want to make your ratios look pretty, build a minimal amount of them. If you attack often, you'll want to rebuild HC faster. Either way, you don't want a lot of CV/DE.

Also requesting that the IF Fail report be removed, at least from the frigate section. Frigate fleets and IF fleets are two completely different specs and should not be compared to each other.

They are the same class of ship, just different weapons. They go together. I'm currently looking for an IF Win report.

@ Cowbaca - you also forgot to mention shooting BS/DN/TI stacks and some lone DSs, busting prings... So once you look at it like that, then adding in CV/DE raises your profit by quite a bit.

No, I did not forget, I just didn't mention them because a HC should not be attacking BS/DN stacks, that should be left to Frigates and Cruisers respectively. I'll give you Titan stacks but that only applies early game really, and lone DS can be taken out by any swarm, with HC being the least profitable "swarm" ship to use against them. P Rings are probably the only valid thing there, though again the return on your investment is the same small amount. (in the scenario I used, spending roughly 120k on CV/DE increased profit by 14k)

In my opinion it would be more useful to spend the money on more HC so you can one-shot larger fleets, or more FT just because they're really easy to make a good profit from. Obviously it's a matter of opinion, but I just think there's not really much point in building CV/DE as meat.

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Evil Wabbit » Fri 06 Aug, 2010 19:49

Yupi wrote:
Evil Wabbit wrote:They are the same class of ship, just different weapons. They go together. I'm currently looking for an IF Win report.

No, they're not. If anything, IFs belong more in the HC class, because they get ratios similar to HCs and are good against anything HC+.

As for IF win, define win. A perfect ratio? A leviathan stack made fun of? Or just general stuff?

http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... 9C4B50CEF0
http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... 5B4BF74976

http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... 244C376039
http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... 0C4C376044
http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... C44C37604E

http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... D74B67AC98

http://battlepaste.nullnetwork.net/view ... EA4A88BADA (Not mine)

Edit: I met two other IF stackers on the forums here, but I can't find their reports. ~


Thanks for the reports, but I still believe IFs belong with the Frig class.

Cowbacca wrote:In my opinion it would be more useful to spend the money on more HC so you can one-shot larger fleets, or more FT just because they're really easy to make a good profit from. Obviously it's a matter of opinion, but I just think there's not really much point in building CV/DE as meat.

Everything about playing style is a matter of opinion. :) Such a diversity is good for the game.

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Zoran » Fri 13 Aug, 2010 19:14

Looks good. :)

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Firefox » Mon 01 Nov, 2010 16:57

A bit of a Necro, but as an I-FRG spec, I agree that it should go more under HCs than FRGs, especially in terms of function. Their targets are bases with P-Shields (like HCs) or Battleships and above (again a HC-like function). And I FRG speced before this, and no, absolutely NO meatshield other than FTs give the best ratios AND the most efficient fleet in that class bracket in terms of FRG firepower.

What can I say, I feel the need for speed. :P

BTW Very important warning. Make sure your target galaxy has a friendly JG. :lol:

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby scyther » Wed 03 Nov, 2010 00:12

Mattzo wrote:If you're using HCs to shoot CR in any sort of number over about 500 you've gone wrong.


^This. Why would you ever want to shoot CR's with HC? Let your FR-spec guildmate take it instead, he'll make more profit off it than you will.

The idea of specializing your fleet isn't so you can shoot everything, it's so you can shoot some things epically. If you're HC spec and the enemy is CR spec, you're supposed to run away and let a guildmate who's better equipped take it.


Evil Wabbit wrote:
Mattzo wrote:If you're using HCs to shoot CR in any sort of number over about 500 you've gone wrong.

Says who? HC+DE+CV+FT = win vs CR although not nearly as good as others, it does the job.




depends, if its a 30k cr stack with 1mil fts hc is better for killing it than anything but titan+
Just about every major guild on every server. Using the wrong kind of fleet to pull off a crappy ratio instead of letting a guildmate with the right kind of fleet get a great ratio is stupid and weakens the guild.

Thanks for the reports, but I still believe IFs belong with the Frig class.
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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby CupidStunt » Fri 21 Jan, 2011 17:28

Building a Solid Core.
First, build around 100k FTs with enough hangar capacity to carry those units, whether you use CAs or FCs is you choice. Next, build some units to protect your CAs/FCs depending on which carrier you chose. IE: CRs for CAs, and HCs/BSs for FCs. You'll want to build 4X the amount of escorts as you build carriers. IE: 250 FCs = 1000 HCs. You may now expand your drop fleet again, this time to 250k FTs before building more escort units. After building 250k FTs, and enough hangar capacity and escorts, you'll want to build some HBs. I normally go by 10% of my FTs for HBs. IE: 250k FTs = 25k HBs. From here, you may build up your fleet as you want, this is just a good general core for a drop fleet.


This is my first server and first spec, but I'm curious about the HC escort numbers shown here.

It sounds like an awful lot of escort to me. 1000HC for 250FC is about 500k in escort added on to a 1.3mil mobile and I find it hard to believe I wouldn't be better off relying on guildmates to protect me and have more of my mobile that protects them. 500k is over 100 extra FC: a 40% increase. Now if that number is meant for 250k FT, why not simply have a ratio to follow all along rather than in stages, like 2:1 HC to FC?

I see the need for a little HC or CR to provide disincentive for HC/CR fleets and to help crack some DEF while you're still building up the swarm, but1k HC at 100k FT sounds like a dual spec to me rather than the escort for a FT spec.

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby pezzawinkle » Sat 22 Jan, 2011 16:02

you did get most of that point there, but i think you missed the concept.

the initial fleet in terms of a fighter swarm (unless your building on the back of frigates) is going to be dual spec so you can actually make profit, those 1K HC's are about right for getting attacks in while you build your fighter swarm up...

the idea is to maintain you HC count, not increase it to a ratio with the FC's... when your fighters can stand on their own, you simply use the 5-10K CR/HC's as an escort, and that is fine since by then you should be around 10-20M fleet anyway ;)

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby CupidStunt » Sat 22 Jan, 2011 17:43

pezzawinkle wrote:you did get most of that point there, but i think you missed the concept.

the initial fleet in terms of a fighter swarm (unless your building on the back of frigates) is going to be dual spec so you can actually make profit, those 1K HC's are about right for getting attacks in while you build your fighter swarm up...

the idea is to maintain you HC count, not increase it to a ratio with the FC's... when your fighters can stand on their own, you simply use the 5-10K CR/HC's as an escort, and that is fine since by then you should be around 10-20M fleet anyway ;)


thks for the response. I guess my point would be that 1k HC is way more than necessary to make profit with that many FT, although I guess that's dependent on where you are in a server in relation to other players. If the HC are there to help crack defenses or derb fleets that a swarm's 1% can't currently get to, then I still think building 1k at 100k FT is overkill. It sounds right for 250k, although I'm not near that so I can't really say yet, but I'm pretty sure if I'm in the 500 HC range with extra FC/FT it won't change a single target I can hit or not.

Since building the swarm as fast as possible to hit as many things as possible with FT only is the end goal here, I would hedge towards under developing the HCs rather than overdeveloping them, but that's just my take on it. I was asking in case there was something else I hadn't considered. :D

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Ming » Thu 19 Sep, 2013 15:02

All of the links in the opening post are now dead. :(

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby Wlerin » Thu 19 Sep, 2013 18:01

Yeah, that site went belly-up a while ago. Check the battle report threads on each server's P&W forum. Well, no, on Alpha and Omega's P&W forums.

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Re: Fleet Build/Combat Guide

Postby LesCrow » Fri 07 Feb, 2014 01:07

'Tis an appropriate place to ask this, right?

Why is it that unshielded units don't take damage? They are either completely healthy or destroyed, no in between.

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