Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Read and comment on our tutorials and user guides here.

Moderator: Support Moderators

Space Hippie
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon 01 Dec, 2014 01:52
Reputation: 0

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby Space Hippie » Thu 14 May, 2015 04:06

xJudicatorx wrote: E-hono(u)r
Fleet
Farm view: Fleet is really cool and I'll get some whenever I'm not busy doing something else.
Farmer view: Fleet is the best route to increasing my credits and defending my bases, so I'll make as much of it as possible as quickly as possible.
Summary: There is no point to increasing capacity if you aren't always producing fleet - no point to increasing your economy if you won't be spending it on fleet. Fleet is the be all and end all in this game, so get a lot of it.
Disagree. This is not an entirely accurate statement. Real estate is the end all and be all of this game, not fleet. You can have all the fleet in the world, but you can only take 1/3 of your enemy's economy away. If an enemy has more real estate you will inevitably lose. Fleet is a means or tool by which to occupy real estate, but it is not the real "game winner."
xJudicatorx wrote: Defenses
Farm view: If I'm unprofitable, no one will bother to hit me so I'd better spend most of my money on that.
Farmer view: I wish someone would attack me so I could find their fleet and derb it.
Summary: Defenses are handy for when you're offline or just don't want to bother watching your scanners, but mostly aren't necessary if your fleet is around. As long as you have enough that no one can sneak up on you, you can spend those credits on other things.
Disagree. Deterrence is not necessarily about never getting hit. It is about being chosen last. The idea of having strong defenses is not to avoid being hit, it is to make others (such as those with loads of fleet and no defenses) more attractive. The position posited here as the "farmer view" only works if you are in the top guild; otherwise it just makes it easier and more profitable for any enemy stronger than you to occupy your bases and continue to do so.
xJudicatorx wrote: Command Centers
Farm view: More command centers means more defenses so the more the better.
Farmer view: Command centers are the only structure in the game that gives absolutely no benefit, so I want to have just barely enough to hold all occupations.
Summary: Seriously, a crystal mine on a craters gives you more value than a command center that isn't holding an occupation. Putting 10 or 20 on each base is so costly in terms of area and population that you could double your production rate by disbanding them.
Heard this a million times. CCs are a waste of space... Time and experience has proven otherwise. Difference of opinion, I guess. Assume for one second that you can have both good production and heavy CCs (which you can). Now what? The answer is, your enemy hurts when they try to perma OCC you. You are free more rapidly. Your defenses and econ can regenerate faster. Fleet can be derbed, but OCCs last forever!

It was mentioned that a "crystal mine gives more value". There is the answer. Is "value" what you are truly after by creating CCs? NO! Is "value" the end all of this game? Obviously not because a single fighter on a base with 20 CCs can do twice the damage of one fighter with no CCs. If you lose a million fighters taking back an OCC'd base rather than half a million fighters you lost 5 million credits rather than 2,500,000. That doesn't sound like much of a "value" to me, considering the overall cost of Command Centers.




I think this guide is good and makes many good statements, but like everything else it is not entirely accurate and does not take all situations into consideration. To each their own.

User avatar
Wlerin
Addicted Member
Addicted Member
Posts: 19485
Joined: Mon 08 Dec, 2008 23:35
Reputation: 589
Guild: L:[USSV]
P:[AKB48]
A2:[(-o-)]
Location: Gondolin

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby Wlerin » Thu 14 May, 2015 10:19

If you're not in a winning guild, then you're in a losing guild. In order to win you need to think mostly as outlined in the OP. If you find yourself disagreeing with the OP, then let me humbly suggest: that's why you still suck.

Space Hippie wrote:I think this guide is good and makes many good statements, but like everything else it is not entirely accurate and does not take all situations into consideration. To each their own.
You are correct. However, your objections are all to things the guide gets right. The only one you're even close to on-base about is CCs, but the only exception to what Judicator wrote about them is when you are fighting being occupied. The goal of the farmer is to never be occupied, or else to have enough fleet that he can free himself without needing to rely on spawns, so, while in the real, practical world players will have to deal with these situations, it is not how the "farmer" thinks.

Also, everything you could possibly think of killing with "half a million fighters" either a) won't kill all of the fighters necessary to one-shot them (so CCs don't matter), or b) should be killed with something else.
Assume for one second that you can have both good production and heavy CCs (which you can).
No, you can't. 20 CCs is 20 Area/Pop/Energy you don't have free for production. That's a hell of a lot of lost production.

Breech Loader
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed 06 Apr, 2016 12:53
Reputation: 0

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby Breech Loader » Wed 06 Apr, 2016 13:42

It's not that Production isn't important. Everybody wants the perfect Rocky planet in position 1 or even 2. The thing is that even when they're not taken they're still rare, just by dint of the combinations of planets and positions you can have, and of course practically everybody else is hunting for them too.

But when you're starting out with limited credits, high production isn't so important because after a few hours you'll keep running out of money before the hour is out anyway. Early on, it's research that's really important, because you can't build anything if you don't research it first. That means that you really want high fertility and high energy to save on Urban Centers and Gas and Solar. It matters less later, but the faster things get moving, the sooner you can get to 'later'.

I feel like Metal 2 is sufficient for your first two or three worlds, and then you can hunt down a few tasty Production planets to really make your Fleet explode once your money's rolling. THAT is when you can start pushing other people around. No point building a huge fleet if it keeps making you too broke to build up your new bases or research better tech for it.

User avatar
Gamer798
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu 29 Sep, 2011 21:45
Reputation: 17
Guild: T: GR / R: RIP / K2: BMF
Galaxy: Omega

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby Gamer798 » Wed 06 Apr, 2016 13:53

There is always one thing important in AE and it is balance.
If your account is not in balance you have a weakness. That weakness slows you down and you become a farm in no time.

Gamer798 // Danzo Shimura // Death Parade
Everywhere and nowhere
Breech Loader
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed 06 Apr, 2016 12:53
Reputation: 0

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby Breech Loader » Wed 06 Apr, 2016 14:56

He's right about one thing - you don't want just one 'best' planet. You're unlikely to be able to make enough to make all your planets perfect, but remember that if your one 'best' planet is taken, you're seriously screwed.

Not that I see anything wrong with colonising every planet in your system for yourself, as long as you have the fleet to back all of it up. I can see two good planets right there in my system; why ignore them just because they're close together? What, do I sit and wait for somebody else to bag them?

Also, the size of a planet is only really a concern if you're a free player with limitations on your empire.

User avatar
Wlerin
Addicted Member
Addicted Member
Posts: 19485
Joined: Mon 08 Dec, 2008 23:35
Reputation: 589
Guild: L:[USSV]
P:[AKB48]
A2:[(-o-)]
Location: Gondolin

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby Wlerin » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 07:15

Breech Loader wrote:Also, the size of a planet is only really a concern if you're a free player with limitations on your empire.
Wrong. Area gets massively expensive over time, the less you have to buy (and the more construction you have when you do buy) the better.
Breech Loader wrote:I feel like Metal 2 is sufficient for your first two or three worlds, and then you can hunt down a few tasty Production planets to really make your Fleet explode once your money's rolling. THAT is when you can start pushing other people around. No point building a huge fleet if it keeps making you too broke to build up your new bases or research better tech for it.
Unless you're planning to disband those first two or three worlds later, then this doesn't make sense. The entire point of focusing on rockies is because they're good now and they're good in the future, not just good now but terrible later.


Granted, given the pace of the game these days, certain very long view strategies might be better discarded. If you aren't going to play an account for more than 6 months, you'll never reach the point where every base is a research base, for example, so small sacrifice of prod for a Gaia research base or two might make sense. All planets, of course. And Craters and Metallic for pure production (never more than a couple labs).

Breech Loader
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed 06 Apr, 2016 12:53
Reputation: 0

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby Breech Loader » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 15:57

These things only work early on, but EVERY player is in the 'early on' stage at some point.

Here's one, though - no matter what, keep your money busy. No matter how much you're researching and building, there will be times you're not producing things, sometimes if you're saving up for something. It works whether you've got 20 credits lying around, or whether you're going to bed, or even just going on vacation for the weekend.

Poor Dad: I need the money, so I won't buy anything until I have it, then I'll spend it.
Rich Dad: I'll keep investing my spare money wisely in Goods Production spread over my planets that I time to finish production just as I come back.

Summary: Poor Dad gets hit and has to save up all over again. Now he's much poorer. Rich Dad looks a lot less wealthy than he really is, and his goods come back to him with interest. Rich Dad is slightly richer. If he is hit, he still has the money to spend on a revolt. Pillaging is how you raise money, but Goods are how you save money.
It's the AE equivalent of money laundering.

User avatar
Vault Boy
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun 13 Jul, 2014 00:00
Reputation: 63
Guild: [TI]
Galaxy: Alpha

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby Vault Boy » Fri 08 Apr, 2016 21:10

Breech Loader wrote:These things only work early on, but EVERY player is in the 'early on' stage at some point.

Here's one, though - no matter what, keep your money busy. No matter how much you're researching and building, there will be times you're not producing things, sometimes if you're saving up for something. It works whether you've got 20 credits lying around, or whether you're going to bed, or even just going on vacation for the weekend.

Poor Dad: I need the money, so I won't buy anything until I have it, then I'll spend it.
Rich Dad: I'll keep investing my spare money wisely in Goods Production spread over my planets that I time to finish production just as I come back.

Summary: Poor Dad gets hit and has to save up all over again. Now he's much poorer. Rich Dad looks a lot less wealthy than he really is, and his goods come back to him with interest. Rich Dad is slightly richer. If he is hit, he still has the money to spend on a revolt. Pillaging is how you raise money, but Goods are how you save money.
It's the AE equivalent of money laundering.
I havent read the rest of this thread, but anyone preaching goods early on is retarded.

Rich daddy rushes a vette and goes tapping ASAP, poor daddy does everything but.

solace wrote: VBII (Tricky)
Unlucky Colin :dance:
User avatar
Ice Pick
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 2290
Joined: Wed 17 Sep, 2008 22:50
Reputation: 183
Guild: [CRUEL]
Galaxy: Alpha

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby Ice Pick » Sun 10 Apr, 2016 19:06

Breech Loader wrote:These things only work early on, but EVERY player is in the 'early on' stage at some point.

Here's one, though - no matter what, keep your money busy. No matter how much you're researching and building, there will be times you're not producing things, sometimes if you're saving up for something. It works whether you've got 20 credits lying around, or whether you're going to bed, or even just going on vacation for the weekend.

Poor Dad: I need the money, so I won't buy anything until I have it, then I'll spend it.
Rich Dad: I'll keep investing my spare money wisely in Goods Production spread over my planets that I time to finish production just as I come back.

Summary: Poor Dad gets hit and has to save up all over again. Now he's much poorer. Rich Dad looks a lot less wealthy than he really is, and his goods come back to him with interest. Rich Dad is slightly richer. If he is hit, he still has the money to spend on a revolt. Pillaging is how you raise money, but Goods are how you save money.
It's the AE equivalent of money laundering.
Good players are ALWAYS producing fleet.
Great players are ALWAYS producing fleet and improving all of their capacities.

Bad players ''save up'' for purchases.
Incredibly bad players think producing goods is a ''strategy''

Breech Loader
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed 06 Apr, 2016 12:53
Reputation: 0

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby Breech Loader » Sun 10 Apr, 2016 20:29

Rich Dad is on an active server surrounded by people willing to play past level 10 and set up trade routes for him to pillage a few times before they get wise.

Poor Dad is on a dead server surrounded by empty space and people under level 10 who have been inactive for months, or everybody's got planetary rings you won't be able to break for months, if they even let you get that far with building. If you can't afford Fleet to go out and bust people up, you can't buy Fleet to go and bust people up.

It's not all about '"Wow, strategy!" and "There's only one way to play, and it's my way!" and "Fleet is the only way to play!". Then they say "Oh, it's so easy to just fly out and go around and scout-tap", as if there's totally rich pickings in every sector.

User avatar
Vault Boy
Silver Member
Silver Member
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun 13 Jul, 2014 00:00
Reputation: 63
Guild: [TI]
Galaxy: Alpha

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby Vault Boy » Sun 10 Apr, 2016 21:42

Okay sure maybe on ceti or something becaise theyve already been won. (Why would you play a dead server to begin with?)

On a active server, whether its alpha or the newest server, rich daddy will ALWAYS rush a couple of vettes out to pillage and plunder his neighbors and make creds to build up more eco/prod caps to produce more fleet to pillage more players, so unfortunately for you, their is one way and one way only to playing ae, unless you're ASAE ofc.

solace wrote: VBII (Tricky)
Unlucky Colin :dance:
Breech Loader
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed 06 Apr, 2016 12:53
Reputation: 0

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby Breech Loader » Sun 10 Apr, 2016 23:03

I'm new, okay? I've been playing for less than a week and I found this place from a particularly enticing advert, not a recommendation. The game recommended Frontier, so I went on Frontier.

And I think I've never played an MMO so utterly unwelcoming of any kind of new player. So utterly and completely rejective and insulting. People say about the game being dead, and servers dying and such, and maybe it's not Astro Empires; it's more about how the people are as warm and welcoming of new recruits as Rosie O'Connell's crotch.

Now, perhaps some people will say I'm whining a lot. But I'm not. Some people here talk like everybody else is retarded enough to have 4 trade routes undefended. Nobody does that, except on purpose. I've been insulted for every post I've made. I'd ask for a second chance, but what have I done that needs a second chance? I'm new to this game; completely and utterly new. Yes, I've read guides. They sure didn't prepare me for the people. I usually love games like this. I don't mind getting whacked in-game for my own mistakes. I'm complaining about the players. Yes, a bunch of you. Telling me I'm somehow retarded because I can't rush around with a Corvette farming undefended trade routes because there are no such undefended trade routes to farm.

I think I might just quit. I can't believe that I paid for 12 months, and now I think I might just quit the whole game right now because of the 'welcome' I've had.

Is that 'whining' enough for you?

User avatar
SilverKnight
Addicted Member
Addicted Member
Posts: 10352
Joined: Mon 06 Aug, 2007 18:13
Reputation: 205
Guild: Royal
Galaxy: Pegasus
Location: Portland Oregon
Contact:

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby SilverKnight » Sun 10 Apr, 2016 23:14

AE has a sharp learning curve.

Judicator and I have a Facebook page for newbs to assist in the learning. The first thing to remember in AE : it's all PvP. If you aren't willing to crack heads , you won't get far. It's also GvG. Being on a good team helps a lot.

http://silverknight1966.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://silverknightonae.tumblr.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In before lock doesn't count when you are the one asking for it :neutral2: -Themis
Breech Loader
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed 06 Apr, 2016 12:53
Reputation: 0

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby Breech Loader » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 00:05

Oh, I'm certainly willing to crack heads in-game. I promise you that. Gameplay style, this game is right up my street. Resource management, visible expansion, the idea that you can actually win an MMO... I'm the expansionist type.I have four planets after four days, and though the guide ssays I could have more, I like to think that's not bad considering how this is my first time to the game, and I've got two more planets picked out. I don't HAVE a serious attacking fleet, because attacking anybody else right now really WOULD be retarded. While I'm told here that I'm retarded for making the most of my protection status.

I'm told I'm stupid for thinking that the only good planet is a 3-metal, when my starter is a 7 fertility Earthly moon, and I've moved to a 4/4 Volcanic planet that needs only 6 basic power plants to run just about everything. And a Crystalline planet in first place for solar power - and how active can a planet be if I can see a second one? And I'm turning a Metallic planet into a giant shipyard. At 4 days, I've researched Ion technology. And I can also tell that Glacial must be the most useless terrain ever invented, and there's no profit in mining Metallic planets, and how a trade route should be decided more by distance than economy, and I have 6 trade routes with six people, and I can see how there's no point in building research labs on anything other than something you're planning to turn into a full-on research planet...

People say about 'that's all good for short term'. And "Only a retard would play the game any differently to how I do." Yeah? Well I have been here for short term so far. Maybe it won't work out for me... the funny thing is that it has been working out pretty well so far.

Over there, I'm doing pretty good. Over there, my planetary expansion is going well, and I'll start hitting people when I've been accepted into a guild and know who it's most productive to hit. Over there I may be new but I'm no noob.

Here, it's a totally different story.

User avatar
SilverKnight
Addicted Member
Addicted Member
Posts: 10352
Joined: Mon 06 Aug, 2007 18:13
Reputation: 205
Guild: Royal
Galaxy: Pegasus
Location: Portland Oregon
Contact:

Re: Rich dad, Poor dad (AE version)

Postby SilverKnight » Mon 11 Apr, 2016 00:36

Are you playing Rigel ?

http://silverknight1966.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://silverknightonae.tumblr.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In before lock doesn't count when you are the one asking for it :neutral2: -Themis

Return to “Tutorials & Guides”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest