Trunky want a bun?

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Trunky want a bun?

Postby Face Rimmer » Sat 26 Oct, 2013 19:51

So looks to me like someone is giving DARK a spankin....

Whats the score then guys? We in GOMN like buns :whisle:

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Silvertouch » Mon 28 Oct, 2013 04:14

When you mentioned to me that there was a new forum post from you Ace, I honestly hadn't expected this. I thought it was a new post about rebalancing the server and I was looking forward to reading it.
Instead you are: Enjoying the news and wonder how many DARK died. Really?

You do realise that you are one of the main reasons why they lost fleet in the first place, right? By stepping out of the war and leaving your allies against a ridiculous fleet disadvantage it was bound to happen that there would be losses, Dark was the first. If Gomn had not stepped out of the war CFF would still sit in the 70's, DARK would stay close to us as usual and they would not have lost anything.

Anyway, DARK will now try to get a NAP with CFF/Gomn so they'll be out of the war as well.

So atm it's just FLEET vs CFF/Nem/GRITS. Roughly 11 vs 20 bil.

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Face Rimmer » Mon 28 Oct, 2013 11:08

The main reason for this thread is to get people talking on our morgue like forum. It seems its only me and a few other GOMN players that can be bothered to post these days.

You cant blame this on us pal! The only reason DARK were attacked is because you guys left them vulnerable after their poor positioning. From my understanding you guys could of backed them up and gave them enough time to get more people out of D03. CFF would of had to wait longer for more people to get online before launching to D03 if you had backed them up but you were to concerned about putting your own fleets at risk it seems. I would like to see CFF leadership confirming that if possible please :D

Imo DARK have no business being involved in this war which you also agreed upon last night when I was talking to you. Knowing this, why have you just continued to shepherd them around with you? Logic tells me that if you had been encouraging them to fight 1 on 1 with GRITS it would be reducing the numbers you would of been avoiding to battle with. I would of been willing to take DARK under our wing and team up against NeM/GRITS. I am still willing to do that now regardless of the fleet disadvantage we would have.

I expect we will see some sort of Ruder spin now :roll:

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Silvertouch » Mon 28 Oct, 2013 11:52

Face Rimmer wrote:You cant blame this on us pal! The only reason DARK were attacked is because you guys left them vulnerable after their poor positioning. From my understanding you guys could of backed them up and gave them enough time to get more people out of D03. CFF would of had to wait longer for more people to get online before launching to D03 if you had backed them up but you were to concerned about putting your own fleets at risk it seems. I would like to see CFF leadership confirming that if possible please :D
I can easily put this on you. If you hadn't stepped out, they would not have lost fleet. Can you deny that? Anyway, I said it was one of the main reasons why they lost fleet.
Other reasons:
- We should have launched later from D40. That would have ensured that CFF had to commit to their D40s landing and that would have given Dark more time.
- Dark should not have launched to D03, it was a long trip and it wasn't smart landing close to a wh if CFF sits on one.
- In hindsight, after Gomn turned their back on their allies FLEET/Dark, it would probably been better if Dark got out of it instantly. We had way less fleet anyway and Dark does not have the activity that FLEET has.

As to not putting our own fleets at risk. Have you forgotten about all the times we backed gomn up in the past? When we put our fleets at risk for you guys? We had just landed in D08 and were trying to get everybody on a single gate. We did not move around because it would have scattered us further and it would have put us out of position. We're giving our own inactives time to move out. I and others waited with launching till CFF was nearly on us, putting our fleets at risk with staying.
Face Rimmer wrote:Imo DARK have no business being involved in this war which you also agreed upon last night when I was talking to you. Knowing this, why have you just continued to shepherd them around with you?
I never said such thing. I did say that Gomn had no business not being involved in this war. I never said anything about Dark and if they had any business in this war. Need to quote you/myself?
Face Rimmer wrote:Logic tells me that if you had been encouraging them to fight 1 on 1 with GRITS it would be reducing the numbers you would of been avoiding to battle with. I would of been willing to take DARK under our wing and team up against NeM/GRITS. I am still willing to do that now regardless of the fleet disadvantage we would have.
Yes, Grits contacted us for a 1on1 with Dark. This was when Gomn was still in the war. FLEET/Gomn/Dark vs CFF/Nem/Grits was a pretty fair fight, sure we had less fleet but we were managing fine. A 1on1 between GRITS and Dark wasn't in the best interest of DARK. Dark had less fleet and far worse averages. So yeah, that wasn't a really fair fight and it didn't happen because the odds of sticking to us was better at that time.
________________________________________________________

Anyway, you mention that the reason for this forum post was to promote activity.
So lets talk some more people.

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Face Rimmer » Mon 28 Oct, 2013 12:41

Silvertouch wrote:
Face Rimmer wrote:You cant blame this on us pal! The only reason DARK were attacked is because you guys left them vulnerable after their poor positioning. From my understanding you guys could of backed them up and gave them enough time to get more people out of D03. CFF would of had to wait longer for more people to get online before launching to D03 if you had backed them up but you were to concerned about putting your own fleets at risk it seems. I would like to see CFF leadership confirming that if possible please :D
I can easily put this on you. If you hadn't stepped out, they would not have lost fleet. Can you deny that? Anyway, I said it was one of the main reasons why they lost fleet.
Other reasons:
- We should have launched later from D40. That would have ensured that CFF had to commit to their D40s landing and that would have given Dark more time.
- Dark should not have launched to D03, it was a long trip and it wasn't smart landing close to a wh if CFF sits on one.
- In hindsight, after Gomn turned their back on their allies FLEET/Dark, it would probably been better if Dark got out of it instantly. We had way less fleet anyway and Dark does not have the activity that FLEET has.
Well for start I did not sign an alliance with DARK so calling them our allies is incorrect. We merely signed a nap with DARK/SWARM because you requested us to. The main reason they were following you guys around was because SWARM could not operate on their own with their limited gates so they were hopping between DARK and FLEET to stay safe. Bringing them in to a server war probably wasn't the best plan if you had full intentions of keeping them safe. So yea I will deny that we are one of the main reasons they got spanked. The main reason is you guys brought them in to a war that was above their pay grade and they got burnt because of it. Everything that happened after is just a direct result of them getting involved.
Silvertouch wrote:As to not putting our own fleets at risk. Have you forgotten about all the times we backed gomn up in the past? When we put our fleets at risk for you guys?
Each time you did that it was a planned move. The last time it happened was in D29. You guys moved out and left us in 29 on our own and we sat there at a 2k distance from CFF in a hell of a risky position. All you guys had to do was launch back to D29 when CFF launched. You had the option to recall where as we had to put a hell of a lot of trust in you guys to get a decent launch. We did all the leg work when it came to scouting and monitoring their blob sites. So for you to say you put your fleet at risk just for us is a massive understatement when in actual fact GOMN were the guys putting themselves in the riskier scenario and that is fact my friend. This happened a couple of times. I think the time before it was in 09. Each time you would launch and would always get a better launch than CFF forcing them to recall and we would smack any inactive landers. It was a solid plan that would not of worked if we didn't put our fleets on the line and if you didn't pull of a decent launch. So that statement you made is almost complete and utter bravo sierra.
Silvertouch wrote:I never said such thing. I did say that Gomn had no business not being involved in this war. I never said anything about Dark and if they had any business in this war. Need to quote you/myself?
Sorry my bad it was Chien who agreed that DARK should not of been in the war. Just a shame that wasn't spotted ages ago. Unlike DARK/SWARM we are big enough to make our own decisions whether we have business being in certain wars or not.

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Ruder » Mon 28 Oct, 2013 19:54

A Ruder spin eh? While I don't really play AE, other than keeping up a JG account, Yes I still troll Delta P&W ;)

Not sure there is really a "spin" to put on anything here. When I signed the NAP with SWARM, DARK, CBMS and company and asked GOMN to do the same the intention was NOT to bring them into a server war. It was to preserve some of the Delta player base by getting some of the server off their back. IMO saying they have ever been in the server war post SIM is just someone trying to justify actions. To my knowledge, and correct me if I am wrong, no guild has asked DARK or any of the smaller guilds to provide any backup whatsoever. While GOMN was not NAP'ed with CFF both GOMN and FLEET could move slower and offer some sort of protection for DARK. The intent, which I believe had never changed were to try and allow the smaller guilds to grow.

GOMN signing a NAP with CFF was effectively GOMN handing DARK over to CFF. As soon as GOMN signed that NAP CFF brought in most of NEM and GRITS. Because of the, now massive, fleet advantage CFF has FLEET needs to move on much shorter notice and also cannot afford to tell everyone where they are moving too.

GOMN has the idea that by backing out it will force FLEET to come to some sort of terms with CFF. A notion I find fairly amusing since CFF now has no reason to bargain with anyone. We will just have to see how that pom logic works out.

If I were Eph I would continue to use the WH's and kill off whats left of all the smaller guilds, including whats left of NeM and GRITS. Lets face it the backbone of NeM and GRITS are in CFF now anyways. (They could always reform once GOMN and FLEET are dead.) All the time driving a larger rift between FLEET and GOMN. Then when the time was right I would focus on eating GOMN. Why GOMN and not FLEET? Both guilds are active and can move quite easily so a recall trap is nearly a must. However CFF can split into two guilds and still have nearly a 9b to 5b advantage on either side of a recall trap. Where as FLEET would have a fleet advantage on at least one side of the trap.

Congrats CFF. GOMN has given you Delta. Lets see if you have the balls to take it.

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Face Rimmer » Mon 28 Oct, 2013 21:03

Image

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Silvertouch » Tue 29 Oct, 2013 02:12

Face Rimmer wrote:Well for start I did not sign an alliance with DARK so calling them our allies is incorrect.
Last time I was in gomn, I thought that Dark was listed in your internals under allies. If I was wrong on this then I'm sorry. I take my words back, you've only turned your back to your FLEET allies atm.
Face Rimmer wrote:I will deny that we are one of the main reasons they got spanked. The main reason is you guys brought them in to a war that was above their pay grade and they got burnt because of it. Everything that happened after is just a direct result of them getting involved.
You state that Gomn stepping out of the war wasn't one of the main reasons they got derbed. You say: "Everything that came afterwords was a direct result of them getting involved." So according to your reasoning the fact that they lost fleet because they launched close to the wh wasn't a main reason why they lost fleet in D03 lately. According to your reasoning the fact that FLEET should have launched later was not a main reason why they got derbed. No, those are not (main) reasons, they got derbed because they got involved, end of story. That's in my opinion a pretty weird way of reasoning. They got derbed in 03 because of numerous reasons. Just saying 'they died because they got involved' is just way to easy.

Lets apply your reasoning to a other example: Charlie got in a fight. After a argument a fight erupted and three other guys hit him numerous times. When he was laying on the ground the three other guys kept kicking him. In the end he was badly injured and had to go to the hospital.
My reasoning: Charlie ended up badly injured because of numerous reasons. 1. he got in a fight. 2. It was three guys vs one. 3. They kept kicking him while he was on the ground. Etc.
Your reasoning: The reason why Charlie got badly injured was because he got in a fight. (The three guys had nothing to do with it, might as well been 1 or 2 guys, they kicked him while he was on the ground? not a main reason why he got injured etc etc)

Apparently you find this hard to understand so I'll try to make it clear for you: Your action 'getting out of the war' allowed 'cff moving out of 70's' which resulted in 'Dark getting derbed'; if Gomn had not stepped out of the war, Dark would not have been derbed. You were indirectly involved and you are a important reason to why they got derbed lately, so deny all you want :)
Face Rimmer wrote:You had the option to recall where as we had to put a hell of a lot of trust in you guys to get a decent launch. We did all the leg work when it came to scouting and monitoring their blob sites. So for you to say you put your fleet at risk just for us is a massive understatement when in actual fact GOMN were the guys putting themselves in the riskier scenario and that is fact my friend.
Now, with that out of the way I can address your opinion about putting our fleets at risk. I was annoyed by the fact that you insinuated that FLEET could have saved a lot of DARK but that we didn't do it because we didn't want to risk our fleets. I stated why we didn't moved towards 03 and I said: 'have you forgotten about all the times when we put our fleets on the line for Gomn'. I never said that Gomn did not had our backs/never risked their fleets for us, Gomn did do that. You now say that we didn't really took any risks, never put our fleets on the line and it was all Gomn? You have your opinion, I have mine I guess. In my opinion both our guilds have put our fleets on the line for eachother. Not just on launches, all the time, numerous examples can be posted out of the ay war as well.
Last edited by Silvertouch on Tue 29 Oct, 2013 02:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Silvertouch » Tue 29 Oct, 2013 02:17

Anyway, Ace, you mentioned that you started the topic to promote activity.

We should not get too sidetracked with our different opinions.. So I'll stop with my walls of text for now. Talk to me in skype of you miss me, I will too :)

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Face Rimmer » Tue 29 Oct, 2013 02:43

Its cool. I wasn't going to reply anyways :P

You didn't address the spin dogtor so you no deserve any more speaky from me.

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Createure » Tue 29 Oct, 2013 22:07

I heard it a couple of times too from FLEET people... how FLEET had our backs and "saved" us from CFF some times recently.

Now a couple of points... yes Ace is correct. If we in GOMN didn't want to put ourselves at risk we wouldn't have left ourselves sitting within reach of CFF while our backup was out of the cluster. It was deliberate, to tempt CFF to make some sort of move, and it worked... and each time we always got some CFF food out of it.

Having said that, the reason we could do this was because we knew that if CFF pulled off a better launch than we expected, which they did do at least once in D29, then FLEET would have our backs... both as allies and with your activity/ability to pull off good launches.

I.E. it was teamwork, can't really say much more than that. No more *beep* about who has saved who/who has worked hardest etc.... FLEET + GOMN have done good *beep* together in the past. Personally i'm extremely unhappy if this is where it ends but I'm not the only voice of opinion in GOMN.

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Silvertouch » Wed 30 Oct, 2013 01:07

Createure wrote:I heard it a couple of times too from FLEET people... how FLEET had our backs and "saved" us from CFF some times recently.

Now a couple of points... yes Ace is correct. If we in GOMN didn't want to put ourselves at risk we wouldn't have left ourselves sitting within reach of CFF while our backup was out of the cluster. It was deliberate, to tempt CFF to make some sort of move, and it worked... and each time we always got some CFF food out of it.

Having said that, the reason we could do this was because we knew that if CFF pulled off a better launch than we expected, which they did do at least once in D29, then FLEET would have our backs... both as allies and with your activity/ability to pull off good launches.

I.E. it was teamwork, can't really say much more than that. No more *beep* about who has saved who/who has worked hardest etc.... FLEET + GOMN have done good *beep* together in the past. Personally i'm extremely unhappy if this is where it ends but I'm not the only voice of opinion in GOMN.
I completely agree with your post. I my opinion we're great allies. We've always backed and helped you guys if we could and so did you in the past. "In my opinion both our guilds have put our fleets on the line for eachother. Not just on launches, all the time, numerous examples can be posted out of the ay war as well."

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Silvertouch » Wed 30 Oct, 2013 01:19

And about Ruder's post? Well if you want me to reply to him Ace I will.

The first part of his post he merely says how Dark got involved in his eyes. He goes a bit further than me and says that when Gomn signed a NAP with CFF they effectively handed Dark over. He also states that you have the idea that we now need to come to terms with CFF. He wonders why CFF would agree to any terms now? I agree. Why would they now.

In his second part of his post, Ruder tells what he would do if he was Eph. Well, I'm not Ruder and I'm not Eph either. I doubt that Eph will turn on Gomn, they want us divided so that they have no opposition (Ruder would do that :p). I expect CFF just trying to derb us for the next months and that they will try to keep Gomn (Rich) happy :)

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Ruder » Wed 30 Oct, 2013 04:03

I never said "turn on GOMN". I said "All the time driving a larger rift between FLEET and GOMN. Then when the time was right I would focus on eating GOMN."

I'm sure Eph has enough eHonor not to pearl harbor them.

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Re: Trunky want a bun?

Postby Face Rimmer » Wed 30 Oct, 2013 13:03

Its over a year since FLEET and CFF decided to end their pact.

For many months GOMN continued to keep a nap with CFF (until 8/9th May 2013) but we cancelled our agreements with NeM and GRITS at the end of the AYAYA/SIM war.

FLEET seemed to be doing fine in the months we still had a nap with CFF. I can't see how there is any difference between then and now when it comes to fleet advantage/disadvantage. You guys were comfortable making your bed back then but since we have moved on your bed doesn't seem as warm and snuggly which I can understand as we have more womenz that you ;)

I seem to recall my reasoning for not dropping CFF at the same time as FLEET was because I didn't want to get sucked in to another long server war. Our cross hairs have always been on GRITS/NeM even when GOMN only consisted of about 6 players before we hit the big time lol.

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