Epsilon Server War #5

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UlquiorraCifer
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Re: War War War.

Postby UlquiorraCifer » Tue 27 Sep, 2011 03:33

the baw that comes from 3sum players is equal to that of an Alpha player :think:

Rather than sitting around almost begging for FTWco to break up, why don't you focus on what put you into this situation and fix your mistakes?

Tho, you guys actually reflecting on your mistakes is probably about as likely as our side breaking up, so meh.

:nonono
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Re: War War War.

Postby Lince » Tue 27 Sep, 2011 04:25

prespa wrote:
albend wrote:LUKE, I must say. Some of you are the sorest losers I have ever seen. Not content with the idea of losing you invent claims of cheating.

Those of you who fought, and took the loss like men. My hat goes off to you, it was a well fought battle and I hope we can do it again sometime. Congratulations on standing your ground, contesting our landing and making me stay up several extra hours. Many of your members didnt, many more complain about it but you are men.


OK, there was no cheating, some of my guild mates just decided to take out 800+ LEs, biggest IF fleet and some more (600mil of our best fleets in derbs). Sorry that I'm a sore looser who decided to stay, contest your landing and almost wiped out IqaluitZens 333 LE fleet.

If we had random suicides, like your side did, I wouldn't even bother talking here. Suicides always happen, but I haven't seen suicides done in this way. And if you still think there was nothing fishy about them, then so be it. Enjoy your victory.


Almost, to bad i hited you first :whisle:
Last edited by Lince on Tue 27 Sep, 2011 20:09, edited 1 time in total.

teh_entity wrote:<3 you massa,I hate lince :whisle:
I still voted for you :scared:

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Re: War War War.

Postby Ephesians » Tue 27 Sep, 2011 05:53

prespa wrote:Ephesians, Epsi is unballanced and we can do nothing to balanced it again. As I said before AE is game of numbers and numbers we're on your side before the crash and will be even more after few months of rebuilding.


You must have missed my big WoT post explaining where CATco went wrong which allowed us the fleet advantage that we had for the final battle to make epsilon so "unbalanced". You should take the time to read it and reflect on it.

All you can do at this point is learn from the mistakes and don't let them happen again. FTWco learned some new things from our mistakes in E29 which helped get us the win in E17. We learned a lot more even from TITAN's mistakes in E17 which we used to guarantee that what happened to TITAN in E17 would not happen to us in E17.

Several months after E17 blob battle, FTW members were itching for another blob battle even before we in leadership knew that we were not in the right condition as a guild to be able to execute one properly. We needed time to make the necessary changes before we pursued another blob fight. We promised our members that another blob fight is on the way but that we weren't going to rush ourselves in over our heads. Leadership all agreed that if we were going to make another attempt as the attackers in another blob fight, we would make sure we did everything in our power to executed it properly.

And that is what we did.

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Re: War War War.

Postby taliesin » Tue 27 Sep, 2011 10:36

UlquiorraCifer wrote:the baw that comes from 3sum players is equal to that of an Alpha player :think:

Rather than sitting around almost begging for FTWco to break up, why don't you focus on what put you into this situation and fix your mistakes?

Tho, you guys actually reflecting on your mistakes is probably about as likely as our side breaking up, so meh.


oh sweet blissful irony of dmtnt giving leadership advice..

Ephesians wrote:What people are overlooking now, is the fact that this past server war did not start this weekend, it started months and months ago and has been going on since a couple months after the E17 crash. As i mentioned previously, immediately following E17, both alliance fleets were very much even. The reason LUKE was so outnumbered in E49 was a result of 2 things that occurred between E17 and E49: #1 poor politics and #2 poor activity.


So Ephesians you are saying the entire downfall of PEN and CAT etc is down to poor decisions? Some what of a blanket statement that could be applied to well everything in life. However if we look at the details a little closer there were some other factors that i feel you have glossed over a tad.

The fact that the rebuild from 17 was in your favour due to the debris is most definitely a factor that should be considered. Rebuild times for the TITAN side were not the same as prod fuelled on eco alone is generally a good deal lower than the debris fuelled variety. This already introduced a disparity between the sides post E17 (one that had existed post 29 as well I admit but in that battle there were again many factors to the loss not to mention generally smaller fleet sizes due to the age of the server). Then there is the Sin issue you mentioned above. You gloss this over as simply leadership problems. While there is most definitely an element of that surely you must be able to consider the reverse that regardless of any attempt at diplomatic ties the leafy vegetable and friends had decided enough was enough cant be bothered fighting FTW any more? if that were the case I'm not sure you can simply wrap it up in a : ' ner ner your leadership sucks ' comment.

Also I wouldn't say you lost the battle in 29 cause of a poor leadership decision. You lost the battle because you became exactly what it was always professed FTW didn't want to be.. bloated , blobby and zerg like. Slowpoke lost all interest in the server when it happened (had many a convo with him about it) and just attacked anyway cause it was better than a stalemate. You call it a poor decision I call it finally realising how awful this game becomes once you get out of the first 6 months of a server and every one blobs (even quicker on the newer servers due to pre planning)

I wont comment on activity. I have no knowledge of FTWs or LUKEs players as I pay little attention these days.

The war was lost and now the server effectively belongs to the victors in a far more lopsided manner than has previously existed. What you do with it will be interesting to see as I am sure a great deal of your now defeated enemies will simply not bother to rebuild. With probably close to 90% of the servers fleet still in the 'old enemies' block . You thoroughly deserved the win with your total fleet advantage my only criticism is why did you wait so damn long in 49. Most of the opposition were ready to just die and get it over long before that. There were those that thought they could defend against you but let us be totally honest. They were wrong so completely and utterly wrong. It was only a matter of time before the blobs collided and the FTW side came out victorious. The only unknowns were how much it would cost FTW and how much lag would ruin what could have been a fun time to pew pew with no regard to the final outcome.


IF you see ppl in here whining about the suicides I'm sure most of you now coming out of the woodwork (as victors) to mock them would be doing the same were the roles reversed (oh yes i remember many accusations of cheating in the past). No one likes to lose, but to do so when you know you cant win but the enemy is just bigger than you is one thing. To have several of your team mate's accounts turn on your and do precision suicides is a real moral sapper and leads to a touch of emotion. Ppl just wanted their chance to be involved in an epic battle.. Not get suicided out of it before it even happened or not even be able to load the page while it was happening only to find yourself dead when you finally do. There was only one predictable outcome from the blobs crashing but when the fleet numbers were closer ppl had hope they could defend it. Even if it was a totally misguided it made the fight worth being online for.

If there is anyone to blame for making this server awful it is the game devs who appear incapable of producing a data allocation set up that can handle the level of queries just one of their servers can demand from them within a short timeframe. Anyway enjoy your server that is enough of my drivel

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Re: War War War.

Postby Shark » Tue 27 Sep, 2011 12:44

Epsilon is a great server. It has always been a great server, it will always be a great server. This current blob crash was unbalanced. Its true. But no one can blame anything but human nature for it. After FYAD won in E29, FTW was demoralized. Post E29, FTW made efforts to change the server to keep it from becoming more lopsided, they failed. So FTW zerged up. E17 was an attempted by TITAN to finish the job started in E29. Had you guy won there, the server would be in the same position it is now, except in reverse. But you lost, and some balance was maintained.

FTW pulled every string it had in E49 to win this war, that much is obvious. But in E17, TITAN leadership did the same. Epsilon is different than alpha. Guilds don't fight guilds for mutually fun wars, they fight to destroy each other, to win the server.

Well, winning two consecutive server wars is enough to win the server. All can agree that in its present form, FTW has won, and Epsilon is wildly unbalanced.
However, if it comforts any of you, I don't intend to let Epsilon get boring. Changes will be made, things will happen, and some server balance will restored. Exactly how that happens will be revealed in time, but it will happen. The immediate issue is the cleanup in 49. Once that is complete, and TT disassembles, then we can start looking forward.

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Re: War War War.

Postby Ephesians » Tue 27 Sep, 2011 13:56

taliesin wrote:The fact that the rebuild from 17 was in your favour due to the debris is most definitely a factor that should be considered. Rebuild times for the TITAN side were not the same as prod fuelled on eco alone is generally a good deal lower than the debris fuelled variety.


The rebuilding process after E17 wasnt as easy for us as you think. We ordered all of our finisher fleets to keep their FC/CA in with their attacks while TITAN took the time to pull theirs away before attacking. We did this in order to provide whatever amount of extra firepower and armor points that we could to our fleets in an attempt to try to minimize the range of our fleet deficit. Yes we had the advantage because of the debris, but we were also rebuilding from scratch whereas TITAN was rebuilding with CA/FC already in tact.

taliesin wrote:Also I wouldn't say you lost the battle in 29 cause of a poor leadership decision. You lost the battle because you became exactly what it was always professed FTW didn't want to be.. bloated , blobby and zerg like. Slowpoke lost all interest in the server when it happened (had many a convo with him about it) and just attacked anyway cause it was better than a stalemate.


That is absolutely the definition of bad leadership. Slowpoke knew that crashing the FYAD blob was not a good call but he made it anyways simply because he was bored and got everyone slaughtered as a result. It can't really get much worse than that. (I don't wanna put all the blame on Slowpoke though because there were other leaders invovled too)

taliesin wrote: ...my only criticism is why did you wait so damn long in 49. Most of the opposition were ready to just die and get it over long before that.


Like i said previously, we promised our members that when we do this thing, we would execute it properly. We had no doubt that we could have wiped your blob within the first week or 2 of landing in E49 just based off sheer numbers. The only reason we waited so long was to wait for our JG above your blob to develop. In E17 the cat flights to our blob were something like 20s for frigs, 40s for hc, 90s for levis. This gave us as the defenders enough time to prepare our counter attacks and pick our targets. We learned from TITAN's mistake and in E49 established a JG next to your blob that would instead provide us with a 5s HC flight and a 20s levi flight to your blob. We knew this travel time reduction would severly hinder your defender's advantage.

taliesin wrote:There were those that thought they could defend against you but let us be totally honest. They were wrong so completely and utterly wrong. It was only a matter of time before the blobs collided and the FTW side came out victorious. The only unknowns were how much it would cost FTW and how much lag would ruin what could have been a fun time to pew pew with no regard to the final outcome.


If LUKE would have stayed on their own blob and defended from there the same way FTW did in E17, I have no doubt that LUKE would have dealt much more severe damage to TT/SWAG fleets. If you stayed on your blob you could have used inactive fleets as meatshields and decoy targets while your active fleets picked us off as we attacked your blob. I agree that FTW would have won the pile regardless, however the decision to contest our landing next door made it 10x easier for us to wipe out your fleets.

At the same time you forfeited any possibility of denying us debris by making the pile under our blob instead of under your own. Would you recycle the whole pile? Absolutely not. But 1-2 ticks collected is better than 0. Even if your actives lifted off their recyclers and only your inactives recycled, it would still be that much less derbs left for FTW to recycle.

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Re: War War War.

Postby Relentless » Tue 27 Sep, 2011 19:40

taliesin wrote:IF you see ppl in here whining about the suicides I'm sure most of you now coming out of the woodwork (as victors) to mock them would be doing the same were the roles reversed (oh yes i remember many accusations of cheating in the past). No one likes to lose, but to do so when you know you cant win but the enemy is just bigger than you is one thing. To have several of your team mate's accounts turn on your and do precision suicides is a real moral sapper and leads to a touch of emotion. Ppl just wanted their chance to be involved in an epic battle.. Not get suicided out of it before it even happened or not even be able to load the page while it was happening only to find yourself dead when you finally do. There was only one predictable outcome from the blobs crashing but when the fleet numbers were closer ppl had hope they could defend it. Even if it was a totally misguided it made the fight worth being online for.

If there is anyone to blame for making this server awful it is the game devs who appear incapable of producing a data allocation set up that can handle the level of queries just one of their servers can demand from them within a short timeframe. Anyway enjoy your server that is enough of my drivel


I most certainly did not come out of the so called "woodwork" to mock you or the LUKE side. If I were I might make references to
Image
^Starwars.

I agree, suicides on either sides are detestable. I also agree that were the odds closer suicides MIGHT have strategic importance. One can hardly say they are 100% for certain orchestrated. In my honest opinion suicides are bad for both sides. It takes away the victim's ability to play the game or desire to play the game. It's one thing for a player to quit because they no longer like the game, are to busy in real life... but to add all the natural factors of decay.... is detestable.

I'd like to think that suicides are in general a result of server politics than it is an orchestrated conspiracy and thus; part of the game experience as degenerate as it is. However as with suicides there is also a way to mitigate them. How can you make your fleet generate more derbs if it were suicided? Hmm? Armour? Tech? Or perhaps.. you could add a Leviathan if you're a different specialized fleet to add a slight kick if it were to be completely suicided. Not to say a specialty should become a rainbow but to add a slight advantage that would even mitigate the results in the smallest ways could be of help.

I think by now everyone should anticipate being suicided on.

I enjoyed fighting LUKE, although I think this battle has got to have been the quickest ever executed. LUKE seemed to die in under half an hour. To be truthful it was almost dissapointing it wasn't a bit more challenging. Which is why I hope that LUKE players stay, play and improve and find some way to overcome their loss of morale or will to play.

Try to take things with a grain of salt LUKEies.... warm up and stop being so... well "LUKE-WARM" :biglaugh: Uhm... funny no? Lol.

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Re: War War War.

Postby Themis » Tue 27 Sep, 2011 20:07

That joke was almost "lemontable" :nonono

(sorry, that's an even worse joke than the original)

Ooh looky... Forum Rules ... read them!
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Re: War War War.

Postby Krull 16 » Tue 27 Sep, 2011 23:59

@Ephesians

some points, in general you are right, others not really

First of all ,Congrats

you ppl develop a plan and carry it out to final victory with determination and a sense of heading and purpose
well planned and well executed.
Well Done

About the crash ,you grant us that if we stay on the gate victory would be to FTW no matter what
we agree

You stated that we would get maybe 2-3 ticks ,on that i disagree
on my view at best the inactives would get one tick ,likely not even one
i base that decison on the huge levi stacks that ftw has ,after the first assault ,and lets do a very optimistc view
that we would hold the first assault ,the only thing ftw had to do its count the surviving bs stacks
and ninja them ,on a scond attack ,here two choices we either waste our surviving fleets or the bs stack had to lift away
if the bs lift away would be easy for a levi stack to waste several fleets before the bs could recall back

As you said it would only take longer to conquer nothing else

and we would depend on a great activity ,a item that we did not had.

on the final assault we had 2B online if we add the ones that contested the LZ (3B) supposing that they would be online at that time too ,then we would have a total of 5B ,hardly enough to hold the first assault

So we had a no win scenario to face ,with that in view
I started to watch all other options ,(not disbanding ,not running,ofc )

To contest the LZ was in my view the best
We estimated that ftw would launch 6-9B (we were right ) ,and we estimated that we would need 5-6B
to hold\win the LZ at first crash

What was the merits of that choice ?
we would be able to target FTW fleets at will (unlike the final assault ,where you guys will come in with just a few seconds warning)

If we managed to get 5-6B online and we did ask for all to be online at 13.50 ,with that on mind
then we would be able to win the Lz and pick the remainder fleets one by one
and likely force a recall of the rest

Ofc ,FTW would reform and relaunch ,and we would likely get overrun in the end
but we would be able to collect some ticks with no ftw fleets 4-5 secs away
to kill our recs like in ephs scenario

It was a very slim chance but fact was a chance ,something that your scenario was empty off
I would rather have 1% chances than 0%

To make FTW have more work was never our goal
but to try the only chance to success is

Even more as we both said was a no win scenario so why not try ?

as it turns out ,the result was getting the crash over sooner

because despite we ask for a week for all to be online at that time
we only get about 3B to crash the LZ not nearly enough of what needed

someone ask me : and if we dont have 5-6B ? i reply ,if we dont have 5-6B we are dead anyway
inactives only decoy so much ,in the end they shoot no one
and they will have specific targets assigned to avoid that decoy too

However i must state when we contested the LZ we did much better on ratios than the ppl online on the final assault
and ppl had 2 different times to fight the crash
So more ppl was able to fight in the crash because of that
and we were able to use more fleets instead of just the ones online at 19.31

I dont regret for a second my choice ,i prefer to have a slim chance than no chance at all

Even more reinforced because ppl online at final assault were unable to make any good ratios on average
you can say because we had less fleets ,agree ,but its not also true that ftw had less fleets too ?
we did managed to waste a good bunch on our attempt ,regardless of not being able to hold the LZ

you would not choose this manoeuvre for yourself but then again staying put was different ?
last 4 hours or 6 hours was really that important ?

anyway a shame we did not make the 5-6 B so we could see the merits of the manoeuvre
at least we would go down with a good push

Anyway ,well done
Congrats

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Re: War War War.

Postby Shark » Wed 28 Sep, 2011 00:33

I must disagree Krull.

Contesting the LZ was not a wise decision. First off, you should have a good idea of what sort of activity will get in any launch before you make it. secondly you must judge your enemy. TT and sWAg has over 7 billion synced in our launch to Jbee's gate. Another billion not far behind. You would not have been able to contest eight billion fleet withou the combined strength of your entire guild. And you knew that you didn't have the activity for that. On paper, contesting sounds like a decent idea. But any plan must be adaptable to the circumstances. I was surprised as hell when I saw LuKe on our LZ. Not because we didn't consider the possibility, but because I didn't believe it was a tactically sound move.

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Re: War War War.

Postby Krull 16 » Wed 28 Sep, 2011 02:18

Surprise was another good factor to enforce the ideia ,i consider that
you guys will place full force on ppl being online at 19.31 for the final assault

So we had a very good chance that some were not even online on landing
confident that we would not contest it and stick to the stay on the gate death plan

we had about 70% ppl under 1 hour activity ,when ftw hc launch started
that gave me hope that we might pull it off

to ask that 6 B do a 1-1.5 ratio average as defender its not really that far fetch
and that would grant us the LZ by it self ,at least for a few time

the launch it self was good but not that good that we could not win
with 6B

in a normal situation ofc we would never dare to do it ,but as stated before
it was a no win scenario ,so no sound tactical s moves were available for us to choose

Was die for sure or try a slim ,a very slim chance but a chance

So point was not what we could do but more what we had to do at all cost
i hoped for more really ,like 4-5 hoping on getting the needed 6 ,knowing that would be very hard to make 6
but not impossible

3 was disappointing

when all sound tactical moves carry certain death ,unsounded moves become attractive
the odds of the scenario justify the decision in my view

other would likely settle for certain death decisions and it would be fine too
but sit and die was never my style in this game.
my bad,lol

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Re: War War War.

Postby ztick » Wed 28 Sep, 2011 02:49

It was fun..

+1 to krull for taking a chance.

my compliments to both sides.

+1 to Salsa and crew for trapping LUKE/CAT in E49.

Let's do it again next year.

no WoT here, nothing to see please move along.

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Re: War War War.

Postby Ephesians » Wed 28 Sep, 2011 13:42

@Krull

In hindsight, I think that the few LUKE players who launched fleets between our landing and our final push did just as much devastation to our fleets as those who contested our landing. When you contested our landing, the lag was bad enough where many LUKE players werent able to shoot TT before TT shot them. However the ones who were launching ninja snipers to pick off our vulnerable fleets between crashes were very successful. We lost several solid levi fleets because of it, enough for use to instruct all of our remaining stacks to move back to our original JG until the time of the final crash. Since there was minimal lag and only a 2-3 second or so travel time, most of them were able to get their shots off on their desired target before getting counter attacked.

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Re: War War War.

Postby Deadp0oL » Wed 28 Sep, 2011 16:25

Ephesians wrote:
After losing the E29 server war, FTW lost several members as is typically following any server war, however we did not give up. We were all determined to rebuild and regain our seat at the top of the server because we all knew that we were better than the fail performance that we put on in E29.



After that crash we didn't make a quest to totally anihilate FTW, we backed off.
After the SiN split and the creation of XOXOX (no need to go into details but we did want to change the server for the better) we (in XO) gave you a 6 month nap which meant there was no guild on this server that could really hurt you. In this time you fed on some of our allies but we stayed neutral. Maybe it was a bad choice, maybe it wasn't but it doesn't matter now. The point is we could have gathered up the troops while you were still on your knees and keep hammering you like you did to us after E17.

Anyway, you played your cards well during all this time, if it was fair or not it doesn't matter because this is a game and anyone can choose how to play it. You and the other FTW leaders such as Salsa have all my respect as AE players and leaders, and you also have my congratulations for these victories.

DP

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Re: War War War.

Postby Soundwave » Wed 28 Sep, 2011 22:20

Ephesians explained all.

Luke one win was due to Ftw fail. Ftw 2 wins are due to Ftw skill. Luke needs to improve overall to match Ftw. Thats it.

Suicides,lag,crash of server and all other "things" and "issues" are just "random events" that happen each time. Expect them.

ps. this is just another battle. Not end , or beggining of anything...

Quiting this *beep* game.

*beep* you all.

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