Epsilon Server War #5

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Relentless
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Re: War War War.

Postby Relentless » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 00:30

Deadp0oL wrote:
Ephesians wrote:
After losing the E29 server war, FTW lost several members as is typically following any server war, however we did not give up. We were all determined to rebuild and regain our seat at the top of the server because we all knew that we were better than the fail performance that we put on in E29.



After that crash we didn't make a quest to totally anihilate FTW, we backed off.
After the SiN split and the creation of XOXOX (no need to go into details but we did want to change the server for the better) we (in XO) gave you a 6 month nap which meant there was no guild on this server that could really hurt you. In this time you fed on some of our allies but we stayed neutral. Maybe it was a bad choice, maybe it wasn't but it doesn't matter now. The point is we could have gathered up the troops while you were still on your knees and keep hammering you like you did to us after E17.

Anyway, you played your cards well during all this time, if it was fair or not it doesn't matter because this is a game and anyone can choose how to play it. You and the other FTW leaders such as Salsa have all my respect as AE players and leaders, and you also have my congratulations for these victories.

DP


It's funny because after E29 I remember a particular person claiming to have direct orders from VilePillager to take over DMTNT policy in order to align itselves with the then envisioned Sin guild (as it had changed members/hands in the past and let's be realistic that I am not talking about the current sin). Of course we all know who I'm talking about so I don't see any need to mention his name here. The point is he was under instructions to turn DMTNT into some sort of ally of your axis at that time. DMTNT despite it's intermittent activity among leadership were not complete fools.

This person was loled at until he soon returned to his guild. Needless to say whether or not this act of espionage happened before or after the E29 crash.... it was revealed and revealed quite clear to me that the opposing side desperately wanted to annihilate FTW. I pretty much figured out the feeling was again the same when FTW was going through restructuring. As I remember it even after the E29 blob crash the opposing axis continued to go after FTW+DMTNT/Allies. That six month NAP had more to do with the "do good" attitude of restoring the server as alleged. Politics were involved and I'm almost quite sure that the opposing axis had it's own internal issues.

Thus this lolzy heart felt "We left you alone, hopefully by saying this you guys will leave us alone and let us sim in peace" is quite entertaining.

It should be obvious that Epsilon should as per it's reputation lack a certain Alpha server compassion but to be quite clear both sides are rebuilding and after each server blob-show-down it relaxes a bit for the coming months as folks rebuild for the next great mosh-pit-mash-up.

In either case, whatever I've said in my post.... the server will indefinitely go through a change; we've all said it which change? No one knows. Soon enough I suppose we'll find out. However, future battles must go on!

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Re: War War War.

Postby Deadp0oL » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 03:34

Relentless wrote:
Deadp0oL wrote:
Ephesians wrote:
After losing the E29 server war, FTW lost several members as is typically following any server war, however we did not give up. We were all determined to rebuild and regain our seat at the top of the server because we all knew that we were better than the fail performance that we put on in E29.



After that crash we didn't make a quest to totally anihilate FTW, we backed off.
After the SiN split and the creation of XOXOX (no need to go into details but we did want to change the server for the better) we (in XO) gave you a 6 month nap which meant there was no guild on this server that could really hurt you. In this time you fed on some of our allies but we stayed neutral. Maybe it was a bad choice, maybe it wasn't but it doesn't matter now. The point is we could have gathered up the troops while you were still on your knees and keep hammering you like you did to us after E17.

Anyway, you played your cards well during all this time, if it was fair or not it doesn't matter because this is a game and anyone can choose how to play it. You and the other FTW leaders such as Salsa have all my respect as AE players and leaders, and you also have my congratulations for these victories.

DP


It's funny because after E29 I remember a particular person claiming to have direct orders from VilePillager to take over DMTNT policy in order to align itselves with the then envisioned Sin guild (as it had changed members/hands in the past and let's be realistic that I am not talking about the current sin). Of course we all know who I'm talking about so I don't see any need to mention his name here. The point is he was under instructions to turn DMTNT into some sort of ally of your axis at that time. DMTNT despite it's intermittent activity among leadership were not complete fools.

This person was loled at until he soon returned to his guild. Needless to say whether or not this act of espionage happened before or after the E29 crash.... it was revealed and revealed quite clear to me that the opposing side desperately wanted to annihilate FTW. I pretty much figured out the feeling was again the same when FTW was going through restructuring. As I remember it even after the E29 blob crash the opposing axis continued to go after FTW+DMTNT/Allies. That six month NAP had more to do with the "do good" attitude of restoring the server as alleged. Politics were involved and I'm almost quite sure that the opposing axis had it's own internal issues.

Thus this lolzy heart felt "We left you alone, hopefully by saying this you guys will leave us alone and let us sim in peace" is quite entertaining.

It should be obvious that Epsilon should as per it's reputation lack a certain Alpha server compassion but to be quite clear both sides are rebuilding and after each server blob-show-down it relaxes a bit for the coming months as folks rebuild for the next great mosh-pit-mash-up.

In either case, whatever I've said in my post.... the server will indefinitely go through a change; we've all said it which change? No one knows. Soon enough I suppose we'll find out. However, future battles must go on!


I'm not a forum warrior or whatever you want to call it, to tell you the truth i don't even like these forums. I don't see the point of arguing as each side is biased towards itself and there will always be replies to replies of replies etc.. such as this one.

You totally missunderstood my entire post and obviously felt compelled to post a WoT pissing on everything i said, which is fine, like i said, this is how it works.

Having said this, my previous post was not intended to start one of these pointless discussions and most certainly wasn't to imply that we "hope you guys will leave us alone because we left you alone"??
You don't know me, i'm a nobody. But if you did, you would know that i would never say anything, especially in a public forum, implying or ask that you leave us alone and sim in peace, not only because that would be pathetic but mainly because it's just not in my character.

Actually i don't really know if you really missunderstood my previous post or you just wanted to fire your forum cannons because it was about your alliance and i really don't like to repeat myself but let me make this even more simple:

1. I explained the way of how we did things
2. I said that this is a game and anyone can play it however they want within game mechanics. You have your ways, we have ours. We choose X you choose Y.
3. I congratulated your side (This was easy because i really think your side and especially your leaders deserve credit).

Finally, i just want to say that you don't really need to flame me and maybe you could show just a little more respect. Even enemies deserve it sometimes.

DP

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Re: War War War.

Postby Shark » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 03:56

Thanks Deadpool,

A lot of work was put into making this server war happen. It was the culmination of months of planning. As for the future of the server, I don't think any previous server war can serve as an accurate model. The previous wars saw the defender win, meaning a shift in power. This time the attacker won, the imbalance in power got worse. This is a new problem for epsilon and will require a new solution.

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Re: War War War.

Postby Relentless » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 04:47

Welcome to the internet Deadpool. Misunderstandings/Misread posts > Ahead for the foreseeable future and beyond. I'd stop short of calling yourself a nobody though. That isn't good for your morale. As for respect; I respect anyone who has gone through a war, lost their fleet and had to rebuild on whichever side and continued to play on. My apologies if I rattled your cage (metaphorically speaking of course) too rough.

Cage rattling aside, stick around Epsi is bound to be full of surprises, factional changes whatever. Thanks for coming to the server blob-face-off. See you around :eh:

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Re: War War War.

Postby armchair sportsman » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 08:51

In E17 Titan had all the activity they needed, their fleets landed on the neighboring astro in good order... it was their attack protocol that failed. With about 50% more fleet, they had the clear advantage... failing because leadership did not plan well nor educate members on how to get the job done well, chaos was the method chosen... whether directly or indirectly they wrote their own epitaph, learning apparently little from the experience.

Opportunistic hits on stray Cats and the occasional chase over the months that followed were not exceptional and to put it simply, exposed how Cat&Co's leadership looks after it's members... fratricide at the earliest opportunity. The Cat&Co morale and motivation must have been staggeringly low. With this reality there should be NO surprise, or whinging, that there were effective suicides in their camp... the players that did that were high level and experienced, so yes they would know well how to best damage their compromised leaders game, no help needed.

Moving the Cat blob in to protect the forced recall of PEN fleets, on an inferior gate in a system and region with no strategic advantages, well... it speaks volumes. PEN stood to loose up to 1b only as the rest would have ample escape opportunity. I seriously do not understand how the Cat&Co leadership maintains any credibility or receives any sympathy after such a... fatal mistake (to put it politely), effectively resigning their ENTIRE force to obliteration.

Their many members are a different story, largely they followed their orders and managed to push ahead all year... even while 'under the gun'. My respect and sympathy goes to the pawns only.

Server errors... equally affected both sides ability to act efficiently in battle, server lag does not discriminate and BR's are generated by the active clickers... yes HMMM had the 'active' numbers advantage, so be it.
Numbers... Cat&Co had similar time to recover as the FTW group did the year before, as for the SiN contingent... diplomatic fail.
Activity... A basic motivational responsibility of leadership, failed by repetitive and ruthless acts of internal b* and through a clearly suicidal movement.

Cat&Co's leadership and it's supporters excuses and words are stained by the underlying failures in their actions.
It is only your ACTIONS that follow this battle that can revive your stature.

Krull, your post started out with a humble congradulations to the HMMM groups combined leadership on a victorious culmination to almost a years work... but immediately reduced it's worth by arguing mute strategic perspectives, imo illustrating an inability to take it on the chin. Yes, postmortems are subjective but clinging to and expressing your defeated perspective only takes you closer to having an "L" permanently tattooed on your forehead.

Good judgement comes from bad experience, and most of that comes from bad judgement.

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Re: War War War.

Postby Cabbage » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 10:29

As Salsa bought up earlier in this thread.

Krull made a very big mistake, a similar mistake to that he did in E17.

In E17, you were too eager and desperate for a win and ended up losing to very bad ratios against FTW as the defenders.

In E49, you were too eager and desperate to get it over with and ended up losing HORRIBLELY to FTW as the attackers.

The reason why FTW won the war in E17 was because they choose to maximise their defensive positions by staying on their JG and not moving.

Even with the advantage of the server on your side from both duplicated fleets and us having disappearing fleets (FYI, we had over 600m fleet that disappeared) and only two fleets that doubled (too bad they were duplicated after the fight.).

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Re: War War War.

Postby Soundwave » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 14:41

Hm... Ill repeat post as i see that there is one error in what ppl talk about.

Blob battle , that last day when we all fight , is just the culmination of war. War is when you choose where to go , what to do , when to do it.

LUKE had big opportunity when AS was created to hit portions of Ftw Alliance , one by one. In my opinion, AS were to serve only to one goal , provocation for LUKE to jump and attack it , and so to kill one big portion of Ftw alliance. LUKE did catch the bait , but they attacked wrong ,small G.A.,Bush,Abh portion of the blob , that had RED as backup. Altough we failed there , that pattern of behavior should have been made main LUKE objective , especially after successful hit there! SiN was in E60s as separate blob , and LUKE could have launched his attack there , to kill their blob. Probably becouse it was SiN These several weeks when Ftw/RED/AS were separate was EXCELLENT opportunity to catch one big part of these fleets , and kill them. That would made both sides equal again , and who knows what would happen. In LUKE position , i would try to catch RED , as strongest part of Ftw. Nobody would expect that.

In my opinion , that was the only time LUKE had strategical initiative in this last war , cos we were farming bases , while LUKE was hunting fleets.

Plz make distinction between strategical planing , and tactical battles. Luke had great activity and player response , but they didnt managed to utilize it correctly. Also i suspect LUKE had big portion of controlled multiaccounts, while Ftw did not.

Anyhow , once we all ended up in E49 it was to late to do anything. Strategical part of battle was over.

Nobody says that LUKE didnt fight with courage and relentless in E49. But we all think that LUKE didnt work well on strategical plan , in moving , planing end executing their objectives.

or its only my humble opinion...

Quiting this *beep* game.

*beep* you all.
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Re: War War War.

Postby prespa » Thu 29 Sep, 2011 17:49

OK, FTW side planned and executed the war better. Kudos.

What now? You're gonna wait for us to rebuild and fight us again? This time with 20bil advantage? Or you're gonna farm us all one by one until we all disband or join your alliance (if that's even possible)?

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Re: War War War.

Postby Krull 16 » Fri 30 Sep, 2011 03:36

armchair sportsman wrote:With this reality there should be NO surprise, or whinging, that there were effective suicides in their camp... the players that did that were high level and experienced, so yes they would know well how to best damage their compromised leaders game, no help needed.

They could yes but they did not.
And i will not allow you to stain there names on something they did not do.
Even if moral was low and it was ,we had zero suicides.
That its a great praise and credit that our players deserve,under overwhelming odds and pressure they hold the line.

Moving the Cat blob in to protect the forced recall of PEN fleets, on an inferior gate in a system and region with no strategic advantages, well... it speaks volumes. PEN stood to loose up to 1b only as the rest would have ample escape opportunity. I seriously do not understand how the Cat&Co leadership maintains any credibility or receives any sympathy after such a... fatal mistake (to put it politely), effectively resigning their ENTIRE force to obliteration.


Check Dictionary for words like loyalty and friendship and self-Sacrifice
I am aware that it may be weird concepts to grasp in a dog server like epsilon
However we were not the first to use them ,if you recall in e17 FTW had a good chance to move to much better gates
on 18 and 19
But odly in your view they stay put on 17 in a inferior gate system
That decision could cost them dearly however that proof of loyalty to the there mates
was repay by a gigantic stroke of luck that blunder my plan to hell
The piasa account deleting was not occur , then on that weekend ftw would likely
had been destroyed.
(i am aware that the forum bashing would likely deny this 1000 times,but some fair play and honesty would prove me right)
the delay caused the remaking of the plans and also the impatience among all players and
crippled us badly ,common sense would demand that us waited time like ftw did on 49
We started the system jg (yes we were the first to use that tactic )
But we fail completly in having the needed discipline to wait for all conditions to be met
impatience was running wild on the boards and among ally commanders and in fact our
main blob was getting smaller because some were already leaving, back home
So we had to attack or the alliance would break off (this also caused a vote to decide the attack )
Here lies one of credits that FTW deserves to full extent ,we failed to keep the discipline needed
to set all conditions to full force,FTW manage to do it as it was needed
So when we attack, FTW were able to see us and target at will
Something that would be avoidable if we just waited 2-3 more weeks
The efficiency of the 3-4 secs attacks was also granted in our ninja attacks and proven when the final attack happen
Players online on the gate did much worse than the ppl that contested or even ninja attack the enemy gate

on another point, its not really a correct statement what epsh said about fcs being saved on 17
the majority of our ppl lost all fcs because when they landed in the gate they got hit before having any chance
to save them.
Also its also true that some levi stack escaped pretty much unharmed out of 17
that and many fleets too,while titan had only 6 fleets intact.
So after 17 FTW Gain not only fleet advantage but also momentum on a diplomatic level
plus they had the cash to double prod
while we rebuild on econ and on some successful hits that we manage to do
i understand that you want to try to value your victory and you deserve it but to say that things were equal or level
after 17 its not a correct statement or fair.
On diplomatic level as you stated we had a failure in your view
Well on that regard i can tell yes and no
If we had a Zerg policy yes it would be a failure but we never ever wanted to be a zerg guild
In fact we had guilds complaining that we had to give them naps just because
while on the same time FTW were giving naps all around to anyone who took them
Its our failure that we did not follow the same policy ,and Zerg its the only viable way to go
to utterly win a server ,in epsilon it does look that way ,worked like a charm.
Many guilds took the nap regardless of the future.
So well done FTW again ,thing is that we dont like or feel comfortable with that policy
Its not really our playing style ,we coulded went that way ,but would feel strange for us
and awkward
In a game we can choose our own style ,we like ours ,because of that we likely lost the war
But in overview ,i dont think we coulded made that change without losing ppl
ashes and also titan had a tradition of few naps policy and our ppl feel comfortable with that
besides if so many ppl in this server does not like us we are proud to say that we give them good reasons for it.
Game Play reasons.........
They just forget that they hated ftw before,and why.
anyway,Pls carry on with the bashing at will,the real battle happen allready and kudos were deliver where they should
So we are done here.
one point only if we were really that bad ,why do you guys had to recruit the entire server for the job ?
regardless,We will be around one way or another.
have fun :)

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Re: War War War.

Postby Glennus » Sat 01 Oct, 2011 02:27

I have read on a number of occasions that Krull is somewhat of a bigtime chess player IRL (or was). The MAIN reason LUKE lost this war is because Krull treats people in his alliance like pawns on a chess board.

How many leaders on the LUKE side quit before the final blob crash even happened? Jim Morrison was effectively pasted in the 20's, elu and company have had limited roles in organizing, Lord Peter quit out of the blue, etc. Jim and Krull would barely speak without coming to big arguments.

Krull never liked the existence of PEN, because it represented another departure of people out from under his thumb. How many times did he needlessly move the the blob around as a poorly veiled excuse to derb inactives and divvy up the proceeds with his select clique of sycophants? How many people retained access to cat's db after moving to PEN?

He decided to chase small prey like GA, abh, (and even swag when they could be considered small so long ago), and alienated half the server into siding up with FTW. How many ex-goon/decent players left for ftw because of krull? Krull has the personality of a chess master -- he is incapable of admitting his faults or conceding defeat without listing the things that worked against him throughout the battle.

Despite all of that, he's a good guy. He's not a dumb *beep* as some people would portray him, but LUKE is the alliance that needs to think about splitting up rather than asking on the forums for FTWco to give up a good thing. If cabbage can steer his group of sinners over "to the enemy" with little notice, why cant old 3summers, fate, etc do something new for a change?

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Re: War War War.

Postby knightmares » Sat 01 Oct, 2011 03:14

Glennus wrote: If cabbage can steer his group of sinners over "to the enemy" with little notice, why cant old 3summers, fate, etc do something new for a change?


3SUM have had the opportunities to switch sides but either fighting dictated otherwise or we decided we would rather die fighting for fun and a bit of balance than sitting on the sidelines letting ftw role over LUKE not that it changed much. This though either way does not solve the main issue of such distinct sides. In my opinion I have always felt the biggest problem with AE is at some point a server always ends up with two sides and you either have to be one or the other which in turn creates such stagnant blob fights.

Of course I will say having more than two sides does not always solve this problem so I dunno I guess AE is just generally flawed as a long term game.

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Re: War War War.

Postby albend » Sat 01 Oct, 2011 10:52

knightmares wrote:
Glennus wrote: If cabbage can steer his group of sinners over "to the enemy" with little notice, why cant old 3summers, fate, etc do something new for a change?


3SUM have had the opportunities to switch sides but either fighting dictated otherwise or we decided we would rather die fighting for fun and a bit of balance than sitting on the sidelines letting ftw role over LUKE not that it changed much. This though either way does not solve the main issue of such distinct sides. In my opinion I have always felt the biggest problem with AE is at some point a server always ends up with two sides and you either have to be one or the other which in turn creates such stagnant blob fights.

Of course I will say having more than two sides does not always solve this problem so I dunno I guess AE is just generally flawed as a long term game.

The game isnt flawed, its tools are basic. Its just human psychology that drives the politics to this.

Robert Frost wrote:Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
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Re: War War War.

Postby Perun » Sat 01 Oct, 2011 21:34

I havent quit before crash, i just had RL things to take care of and havent had much time to be on AE.

You see getting new job is more important for me than playing spreadsheet game.

As prespa nicely said we lost, who is to blame doesnt matter anymore.

What matters is how epsi goes from this, will we have to rebuild and fight you once more cos you cant drop all '' you all are against us forever and ever and ever '' or we will see some changes on this server which craves for it.

Considering how things go for now i doubt some change will happen any time soon considering it takes so long to even break up your alliance even after all debris collection is done.

Take this as you want but until i see some change i wont believe it and will be getting ready to have our guild pushed in another year long server war like it happened last 2 times.

Edit:

Also i never agreed with krull and i might never do, as said before we could barely talk without arguing during all this, kudos to him for having so much time to do all stuff he did, he did make mistakes and he knows where but that doesnt matter anymore, we just wanted this to end so please let it end now and stop making same blocks again.

@Glennus

3sum did try to split up from our alliance 2 times and every time we got pushed right back in with denying us nap for some time until SW ends.
First time i even tried to make enemy out of XoXoX when i started hitting them, but out of the blue we were pushed back in lol
Second time i asked for nap for 3sum but got refused easily, than cabbage offered me to hide near SiN without nap which would be incredibly stupid for me to accept lol

"Being with two women at a same time the end is never pretty but a ride down is hell of a fun !"
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Re: War War War.

Postby Carnage 101 » Tue 04 Oct, 2011 05:16

AE verse is like a pyramid system and ultimately in the end as the server progresses one group or guild will be on top in the end. It is inevitable

@Krull: Giving out NAP's is an excellent and viable tactic. Contrary to what most believe on a server with two major sides theirs always a neutral party who will inevitably be banged by both sides. Should they ally to one side then it is a disadvantage to the other no matter how small the size of the guild. FTW knew this and gave NAP's cause (1) less people to worry about and (2) they did not blob with LUKE against us.

Its not about the way CAT and Ashes play but the strategy behind the moves that you did not see. FTW and Co. do not give NAP's to everybody but if its against a sizable enemy then why not? FTW systematically stripped whatever allies it could down and it was made easier by your archaic policies towards them. You need to anticipate every possible tactic in order to win. You have to be the grass that bends in the wind not the tree that stays rigid and ultimately falls when a strong wind blows.

Anyone who told you to be yourself couldn't have given you worse advice.
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Re: Epsilon Server War #5

Postby satanslaves » Sat 03 Dec, 2011 21:48

all i can say is i couldnt be online for the fight so i took no part in it but watching the ticker showed ftws awsome show but what really shows ftw ability is they desided to drop pact with everyone one which will save the server from becomeing like the rest for another crash the next crash will most likely be the last one unless everyone makes the choice to break into smaller guilds with less pacts and fight it out


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