Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Joss
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Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Joss » Sat 14 Jul, 2012 02:31

Brothers,

It has been a long time since we are all sailing together.
The original key players of this server that I used to deal with as maybe the older leader left in the server, but not an active leader anymore due to demanding RL, are gone.

I can refresh your memory...
Josh(Infinity), Cloak, Ville Pillager, Dirka... They all found out that AE is not so important to them anymore and that it is not life.

The hardcore players remained and evolved. Salsa is probably the best player that AE ever hosted on the technical aspect of the game. Great leader and superb planning and organisation skills. Together with the rest FTW players that you all met as leaders, Soso, Godlike, Jezbuck, Eph and a few more that we all know managed to turn the server upside down and from us being the prey we became the predator that is our natural role.

However FTW was not alone managing all this stuff. FTW DMTNT and VvV stuck together since the E29 attempt when Slowpoke had the lead and pushed too far. However the determination of all of us to resist and the brilliant move to stick together as one, forgetting the elitistic approach that the coolness of the forums dictate we managed to win. We took onboard friends like SWAG, we used our good politics to create relationships that helped us.

But this game is built in a way that you need to attack to evolve, so friendships and pacts are inevitably dropped. Thus we attacked SWAG. In the same time Krull who was the last formidable opponent left decided to drop the shield. We became too big and with no competition so it was decided we split, select the best 100 players to stay in a really elite FTW and left the rest take their way.

I think that on the strategy point this is a brilliant move. The last 100 most active players will make a last try to derb and suck the last wealth left in the server and that mainly belongs to the former FTW/RED players that did not join the last version of FTW. Brilliant. Then maybe the server will have nothing more to give and die. In the strategy scope this is brilliant.

But I personally do not comply with this tactics. How it is proven? Remember E29. FTW, VvV and DMTNT created a strong alliance, yet lost. There were plots and a lot of drama for those who remember that DMTNT should turn against FTW and betray them. Our leader, VP was lost in translation, a single guy tried to organise this betray plot. At this moment it looked brilliant. FTW was the bully of the server at this moment and would be punished. But there is a small detail that people did not count... HONOR

I insisted we honour our pact. The result was 3 years extension to the sever life and interest and after being one year hunted we became the absolute winner after another 2 years.

My opinion is that this last split is very convenient for those that were left in FTW. The absolute winners. No reason to be afraid, sim and hunt in peace as noone can touch us. But where is the honour in this move? Why not split in two or three equally strong parts? Salsa had his absolute awesome RED, FTW had kept a lot of superb players, there could be maybe DMTNT with their core players revived.

Nothing of this happened. Meanwhile FTW selected the best of MOB, FTW, DMTNT, VvV, TBAG(old ZEN). Even Elite old SIN players are in FTW. So I wonder who will be the possible opponent for FTW. Answer: None.

So Honoring my 1511 days history in Epsilon and much more in AE, I decided to move to DMTNT. This is where I started this game, this will be the place that I might end it. I might not finally win the game, but I will end it with honor. I cannot hide you that I was tempted to stay to FTW safety as I feel it my home, packed with friends, great players and great personalities. I think I have spent more time in FTW than DMTNT, but I feel I cannot leave the friends I personally brought close to FTW alone at this stage of the game.

Be sure that if I decided to stay in FTW I would go all the way, even attacking and derbing old friends, brothers and people I taught how to play. We did it already a few times in FTW including the attack to SWAG that I connected with FTW in older times. There was no honor to this, but there was even less honor not to follow the decisions of the guild you belong to and at all these times I belonged to FTW.

I believe Salsa and Godlike understand me more than everyone. Thank you all for playing together and we will continue doing so, as teammates or opponents but always as friends.

I would like to see all good old time DMTNTers that are left together in the same boat, but I can understand the reasons that will not let this happen. However the invitation is open.

Thank you for reaching this last line of my last but one wall in this forum.

Joss

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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Dro » Sat 14 Jul, 2012 05:03

safe journey

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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Relentless » Sat 14 Jul, 2012 05:08

Well said Joss :clap:

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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Carnage 101 » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 01:05

Hey Joss, respect you decision and good luck buddy.

However unfair FTW advantage is a matter of perspective. These are the current rankings compared to 100 FTW members.

1 [FTW] Farm To Win 9,629,759,520 103 93,492,811

2 [DMTNT] Ghostship 4,573,057,520 95 48,137,448
3 [SiN] Original SiN 3,011,386,870 81 37,177,616
4 [RAM] Rammstein 2,695,612,625 55 49,011,139
5 [SWAGA] The Avengers 1,055,432,890 133 7,935,586
6 [RD] Reservoir Dogs 827,912,550 64 12,936,134
7 [LAAN] The Landsraad 498,795,220 76 6,563,095
8 [TBAG] Tea Baggers 408,986,925 13 31,460,533

More members, many peoples post war creds still running. We are outnumbered in fleet and total production. We only outnumber average server members fleet by 2:1. This is again unevenly spread between top ranking and lower ranking members. Like Eph has 240 mill and the lowest has 60-70 mill. in fleet. Basically if something in RL happens and Eph can't come online we have less advantage. Right now activity is high but for how long? The longer we wait the more advantage offered to the servers exiting members as their fleet averages improve.

We have made things fair to offer ourselves more of a challenge. We accept there is a 50% chance we can lose. We accept this lol

Anyone who told you to be yourself couldn't have given you worse advice.
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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby ztick » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 01:45

Good luck, may the derbs find you..

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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Ericho » Mon 16 Jul, 2012 14:16

Carnage 101 wrote:Hey Joss, respect you decision and good luck buddy.

However unfair FTW advantage is a matter of perspective. These are the current rankings compared to 100 FTW members.

1 [FTW] Farm To Win 9,629,759,520 103 93,492,811

2 [DMTNT] Ghostship 4,573,057,520 95 48,137,448
3 [SiN] Original SiN 3,011,386,870 81 37,177,616
4 [RAM] Rammstein 2,695,612,625 55 49,011,139
5 [SWAGA] The Avengers 1,055,432,890 133 7,935,586
6 [RD] Reservoir Dogs 827,912,550 64 12,936,134
7 [LAAN] The Landsraad 498,795,220 76 6,563,095
8 [TBAG] Tea Baggers 408,986,925 13 31,460,533

More members, many peoples post war creds still running. We are outnumbered in fleet and total production. We only outnumber average server members fleet by 2:1. This is again unevenly spread between top ranking and lower ranking members. Like Eph has 240 mill and the lowest has 60-70 mill. in fleet. Basically if something in RL happens and Eph can't come online we have less advantage. Right now activity is high but for how long? The longer we wait the more advantage offered to the servers exiting members as their fleet averages improve.

We have made things fair to offer ourselves more of a challenge. We accept there is a 50% chance we can lose. We accept this lol


Your perspective is purely delusional and convenient justification. You take 90 of the top 100 players on any server and you should dominate with little effort.

A wise man learns from others mistakes, while a fool only learns from his own.
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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Soldier48 » Tue 17 Jul, 2012 02:29

Well said, and best travels, :clap:

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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Carnage 101 » Thu 19 Jul, 2012 23:04

Ericho wrote:
Carnage 101 wrote:Hey Joss, respect you decision and good luck buddy.

However unfair FTW advantage is a matter of perspective. These are the current rankings compared to 100 FTW members.

1 [FTW] Farm To Win 9,629,759,520 103 93,492,811

2 [DMTNT] Ghostship 4,573,057,520 95 48,137,448
3 [SiN] Original SiN 3,011,386,870 81 37,177,616
4 [RAM] Rammstein 2,695,612,625 55 49,011,139
5 [SWAGA] The Avengers 1,055,432,890 133 7,935,586
6 [RD] Reservoir Dogs 827,912,550 64 12,936,134
7 [LAAN] The Landsraad 498,795,220 76 6,563,095
8 [TBAG] Tea Baggers 408,986,925 13 31,460,533

More members, many peoples post war creds still running. We are outnumbered in fleet and total production. We only outnumber average server members fleet by 2:1. This is again unevenly spread between top ranking and lower ranking members. Like Eph has 240 mill and the lowest has 60-70 mill. in fleet. Basically if something in RL happens and Eph can't come online we have less advantage. Right now activity is high but for how long? The longer we wait the more advantage offered to the servers exiting members as their fleet averages improve.

We have made things fair to offer ourselves more of a challenge. We accept there is a 50% chance we can lose. We accept this lol


Your perspective is purely delusional and convenient justification. You take 90 of the top 100 players on any server and you should dominate with little effort.


If 90 players can dominate over 200 players then the server deserves to lose. There is no justification in trying to keep the server interesting. I can put together a guild that can rival FTW with the players currently in other guilds.

Anyone who told you to be yourself couldn't have given you worse advice.
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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Joss » Fri 20 Jul, 2012 11:08

Carnage 101 wrote:
Ericho wrote:
Carnage 101 wrote:Hey Joss, respect you decision and good luck buddy.

However unfair FTW advantage is a matter of perspective. These are the current rankings compared to 100 FTW members.

1 [FTW] Farm To Win 9,629,759,520 103 93,492,811

2 [DMTNT] Ghostship 4,573,057,520 95 48,137,448
3 [SiN] Original SiN 3,011,386,870 81 37,177,616
4 [RAM] Rammstein 2,695,612,625 55 49,011,139
5 [SWAGA] The Avengers 1,055,432,890 133 7,935,586
6 [RD] Reservoir Dogs 827,912,550 64 12,936,134
7 [LAAN] The Landsraad 498,795,220 76 6,563,095
8 [TBAG] Tea Baggers 408,986,925 13 31,460,533

More members, many peoples post war creds still running. We are outnumbered in fleet and total production. We only outnumber average server members fleet by 2:1. This is again unevenly spread between top ranking and lower ranking members. Like Eph has 240 mill and the lowest has 60-70 mill. in fleet. Basically if something in RL happens and Eph can't come online we have less advantage. Right now activity is high but for how long? The longer we wait the more advantage offered to the servers exiting members as their fleet averages improve.

We have made things fair to offer ourselves more of a challenge. We accept there is a 50% chance we can lose. We accept this lol


Your perspective is purely delusional and convenient justification. You take 90 of the top 100 players on any server and you should dominate with little effort.


If 90 players can dominate over 200 players then the server deserves to lose. There is no justification in trying to keep the server interesting. I can put together a guild that can rival FTW with the players currently in other guilds.


You have to count the human factor in the game. Players are not numbers, they have created bonds all these years so you cannot force certain numbers to play together just because you like.

But if you like numbers so much, if you count the top 100 fleet players, 70 of them belong to FTW. If you count the top 50 fleets, 41 belong to FTW.

Also if you know the game mechanics, big stacks have advantages over the same number of fleet in smaller stacks. So 10 Billions of fleet distributed in 100 players are way more valuable and manageable than distributed in 200 players.

FTW gathered the top 100 players from all sides of the server. In my talks with some FTW players almost everyone believes that there is no more interest in epsi after the last split, it should have been done earlier and in a different fashion.

So please do not jump to false conclusions. You can just say that you like playing with open cards, or steal candies from babies, or that you are a sore loser and do not like to lose or any other valid argument. But please do not underestimate other people's intelligence.

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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Ephesians » Sat 21 Jul, 2012 13:22

In my talks with some FTW players almost everyone believes that there is no more interest in epsi after the last split, it should have been done earlier and in a different fashion.


A different fashion was already attempted remeber? Players in both RED and FTW complained about it the whole time discussions were happeneing, and in the end the idea got voted down anyways.

The other alternative was for RED and BLUE to stay separate and for FTW to split into 2 separate guilds but nobody in FTW would have ever agreed with that either for the same reasons that so many people (mostly ones not in FTW currently) are complaining about now.

Part of the issue was members in the zerg FTW were all happy with their status and none of them wanted to give that up. Part of the issue was that the RED/FTW leadership team (me, salsa, jez, gl) worked so well together and didnt want to fight each other. But probably the biggest reason we didnt want to separate into each our own guilds is because none of us individually has the free time available to be able to each lead our own guilds properly.

The only other option that was available was the one that ended us up where we are now. The 4 of us got together and agreed to execute the plan to put together a roster limited to 100 players. Those left behind in RED (mostly former BLUE players) in a separate guild. Those left behind in FTW in a separate guild (wasnt sure if SIN would reform or not). And then SWAG rebuiding with the other smaller guilds like abh, rd etc. The original fleet estimates for the 100 person FTW guild was 6-7b, ~5b left behind in former FTW members and, ~4b left behind in former BLUE members. That way we could potenitally have a multi dimentional server once again instead of the 2 sided blob offs that Epsi tends to find itself in.

Now obviously we sorely underestimated what the total fleet size would be of FTW 2.0 (8-9 bs compared to the original 6-7b estimate) so the 3-4 dimentional server idea unfortunately never fell through and we instead have a new 2 sided server. But no matter how bad anybodies feelings got hurt on the way this split happened, the server is still in a better state now than it was when the RED/BLUE zerg was allied with the FTW zerg.

People can't really complain about the way in which the split took place since there were no other options on the table to discuss. Nobody was forced unwillingly to be a part of FTW 2.0. As already discussed, there were several players who chose not to and instead joined Tbag, DMTNT, etc and that is perfectly ok. The people here are here because they want to be here.

You say the split should have happened differently, so tell me, if we could rewind and do it all over agian, what would have been a better way to do it?

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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Soundwave » Sun 22 Jul, 2012 21:57

In my talks with some FTW players almost everyone believes that there is no more interest in epsi after the last split, it should have been done earlier and in a different fashion.


I need to say that for me this server is active and fun and i dont complain at any moment on above isues.

Quiting this *beep* game.

*beep* you all.
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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Neliel » Fri 27 Jul, 2012 14:31

With all respect Ephs, FTW will split again. This my argument I have been part of FTW group my entire Epsi life ... You have acomplished every thing except one thing to dominate the server without any allies. When you do that + the fact that you have top 100 players (with some exception) YOU WILL GET BORED and when tnat happens the current FTW guild will split or will disband .... It's matter of time.

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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Ephesians » Fri 27 Jul, 2012 15:45

Neliel wrote:With all respect Ephs, FTW will split again. This my argument I have been part of FTW group my entire Epsi life ... You have acomplished every thing except one thing to dominate the server without any allies. When you do that + the fact that you have top 100 players (with some exception) YOU WILL GET BORED and when tnat happens the current FTW guild will split or will disband .... It's matter of time.


You are looking way too far down the road and jumping to conclusions way too quickly. There are so many variable of things that can change between now and then that could completely change the course of Epsilon to somethign other than what you are predicting. FTW players could quit, internal fighting could divide the guild, FTW fleets could get nuked, etc, etc, etc, the list goes on.

It all depends on how much effort DMTNT, RAM, SWAG, SIN, RD, etc puts into it. They can step up to the plate and improve their game, their Leadership can take responsibility to actually plan and run some ops instead of blobbing and getting bored. They have the numbers. Now if they can work together with each other they can really give FTW a hard time and this current "balance" (for lack of a better term) can be dragged out for months or even years. OR they can be lazy, give up, bend over and die and everythign will come true just as you are predicting. In which case the only ones to blame for such a result are everybody EXCEPT ftw.

And what differnce does that make if we do ultimately wind up splitting again in the future? In the mean time, everybody gets to have fun for the next months and maybe even years. That is the point of playing games afterall. It always amazes me how so many people who play AE forget that it is a game and treat it as if we are killing real life people when we attack each other.

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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Neliel » Fri 27 Jul, 2012 16:28

I agree with you, there're many posabilitys. I'm just stating my oppinion, as you said it will a lot fun if We (DMTNT & Co) take down and I can asure we will try ! lol

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Re: Honor is the fuel to victory, even if you never win.

Postby Joss » Sat 28 Jul, 2012 15:03

Ephesians wrote:You say the split should have happened differently, so tell me, if we could rewind and do it all over again, what would have been a better way to do it?


Remember that FTW did not reach this level alone after losing E29. It stood on its feet by the support it got by DMTNT and VvV mainly. This "Zerg" FTW you mention is a big part of what made you who you are today. Then you keep the best players of FTW/DMTNT/VvV in one guild while you strip off the opposite side of the 2-sided Epsi by some of its best players.
Congratulations. You can also steal candies from babies. And do not give me the "noone is here without his will" crap, because we both know that people select to play with the more experienced side because it is easier, you do not have to coach noone to do *beep* and yes I agree, it is more fun. And of course we have been FTW in this server more than anything else, even us from DMTNT and VvV. So people lost their initial bond with their original guilds.

I would split to the original guilds with the original cores of those guilds together. It would be fair as this is how the "Zerg" FTW was created. Then Original FTW, original BLUE(as they broke up with Sin and they do not like each other) could stay together, DMTNT together, Sin another guild and I do not know how many VvV players left.

But yeah, saying I am cool and I select the top 100 players to play with me, yes this can work. And voila you have the new FTW2.0 that has nothing to do with original FTW except the core.


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