Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

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Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby Mandril » Mon 13 May, 2013 14:51

any ideas? like split PUB/DS/STEEL/RIDDLE in 2 guilds each one

none pacted, like 6-9 month of none blob crash, no perm occ in general, for example attack only base where have 50k-100k fleet onbase, so guild like GTF, WEB, SW, NINJA and maybe another came grow and have some fun in this server, now like 900 guys in gamma, 40-60 conected everytime i login

nostalgia, nostalgia of the good old days, when i was worry about CORE, ZZZ in the 50s

RAGE was fighting with STEEL, NOM too there roaming..

i will like to hear your ideas

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby SmokeytheBear » Mon 13 May, 2013 15:16

Mandril wrote:nostalgia, nostalgia of the good old days, when i was worry about CORE, ZZZ in the 50s


ahhh the good ole days of my well orchestrated perm farm campaigns to get N out of 57-59. worked great till we became friends :scared:

I would be down for any solution that saves the server.

DS, you won, there it's been said out and has been a well known fact since the last crash. You can stroke your e-peens till the end of time now in comfort that you won G v1. It was a good fight, even fun in parts. But for the love of teh lolcats just accept that and help make a solution to fix things instead of flaming (this goes for everyone too).

Mandril is correct, something needs to be done if the server is to continue or return to any kindof fun. As it is now, Gamma is dead. It's sad but it's true and we all know it and the AE admins know it. Players are dropping like flies, and who can really blame them. People will retort to this "they're just losers and quitters good riddance" and to some extent I agree with that. But can you blame them? The current system is 0 fun, none at all. What reason do they have to stay? The only reason I'm still here is as mandril stated nostalgia (and quit is a nasty word by my definition of it). This has and will always be my favorite server. I made alot of e-friends and just as many e-enemies, stayed up late when I had finals early the next day to help run ops or scout or time a hit (as I write this I have a final in an hour :scared: ). It's hard to leave that work and dedication behind.

But the fact remains people are leaving it. In a few months the server will be completely devoid of anyone willing to play and the number of people on will be single digits. "the Alpha solution" is bound to get negative return, but something similar made to where it works for G is critical if we want to keep playing, I know I do, if you don't then leave. Simples.

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby MC. » Mon 13 May, 2013 17:26

i agree to a guild split up to spread numbers up and down the ranks. maybe even try the 24hour dec rule so us drained guilds can prepare for war instead of being on edge everyday. this server drained me with keeping my mobile alive. in the end i just let my mobile land and let DS derb it.

i dont expect anyone to listan to me but i would really like to see 24hour decs. even 12hour would be a good comprimise if 24hours is to much.

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby kirby » Mon 13 May, 2013 18:22

Really want to mix things up , each GM of each PUB/DS/STEEL/RIDDLE make a new guild (Guild 1,2,3,4) , You can change names after >.>, then we go at each guild (PUB/DS/STEEL/RIDDLE) start at the top and count 1,2,3,4 those players then go to corresponding guild (also we can change the start number for each guild that way the highest player in each guild doesn't go to 1, so start one off as 2,3,4,1 then the next at 3,4,1,2 then the last at 4,1,2,3) , This way we end up with even guilds and allows players to get to know other players. We could of course make 5/6 or more guilds if the 4 leaders want to have smaller guilds. And of course none of these guilds can be pacted they take turns at fighting one another like a tournament style <.< (Guilds will match up in wars that last 1-2 months whoever kills most fleet is the victor whatever guild at the end of the year has most victories is the winner for the year. Would be something new to ae and bring a nice spin to the game .

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby Mandril » Mon 13 May, 2013 19:41

kirby wrote:Really want to mix things up , each GM of each PUB/DS/STEEL/RIDDLE make a new guild (Guild 1,2,3,4) , You can change names after >.>, then we go at each guild (PUB/DS/STEEL/RIDDLE) start at the top and count 1,2,3,4 those players then go to corresponding guild (also we can change the start number for each guild that way the highest player in each guild doesn't go to 1, so start one off as 2,3,4,1 then the next at 3,4,1,2 then the last at 4,1,2,3) , This way we end up with even guilds and allows players to get to know other players. We could of course make 5/6 or more guilds if the 4 leaders want to have smaller guilds. And of course none of these guilds can be pacted they take turns at fighting one another like a tournament style <.< (Guilds will match up in wars that last 1-2 months whoever kills most fleet is the victor whatever guild at the end of the year has most victories is the winner for the year. Would be something new to ae and bring a nice spin to the game .



is a pretty good idea..

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby Kraton » Mon 13 May, 2013 20:08

The thing is guys, pub and riddle have 4,053,392,120 + 2,631,865,850 = 6,667,257,970 fleet, DS have 5,419,558,525.

Piddle have 1,247,699,445 more fleet than DS, they have a lot more econ than DS, nearly double the player numbers and yet they are utterly convinced they are have been defeated for ever. They have a higher total guild prod cap due to their higher numbers and so once DS's double prod stops (for most people it has already) piddle should grow faster than DS, yet they have pretty much universally given up! The problem isnt in the server its in their heads, maybe we did a too good job in the propaganda department...

So splitting up guilds and moving the players around will probably mix it up a bit, but all that will come of it is whoever has the most DS players will have the guild with the most commited and positive members so will once again come to the top, players who have a 1.2billion fleet advantage and think they've lost are never going to be winners no matter how much DS nerf's itself!

My suggestion for improving server activity would be to get some motivating speakers into piddle!

In order to help the littler guys i would suggest some sort of server wide agreement that we wont kill guys with under 2million fleet, this would give them some freedom to play against each other without us big guys joining in, it would also make the server more welcoming for new players. This crash was actually great news for GTF, their activity and fleet numbers are improving without PUB killing them once every couple of months.

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby Mandril » Mon 13 May, 2013 20:34

In order to help the littler guys i would suggest some sort of server wide agreement that we wont kill guys with under 2million fleet, this would give them some freedom to play against each other without us big guys joining in, it would also make the server more welcoming for new players. This crash was actually great news for GTF, their activity and fleet numbers are improving without PUB killing them once every couple of months.


yup, this true too.. because you see guys a guild with 20 mill fleet, are like 25, they start in the 00s and are perm occ by DS, start in the 30s, riddle and pub perm occ them... starts in the 40s.. and STEEL, perm occ then too...

at least each guild have theyre particular farmers...


about the first thing that you say Kraton, probably true.. but will be interesting to have 7-8 guild with 50 member and doing some mayhem in the server...

about your guild.. like Smokey say, you won.. have good activity, probably you did a good recruiment in the pass.. i did 1 bad move in the 3-4 times that you try to kill N in the 40s.. the last time was my mistake.. and N dissapear..

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby NooTgasm » Mon 13 May, 2013 21:27

The problem is not with Piddle activity Kraton, it is that all newer players get up to 30, and then are attacked and quit.

Or more seasoned players see better opportunity on newer servers and quit.

Here is my idea, The top 4 are the top 4, keep the fighting in amongst yourselves, more than enough fleet there to keep you all fat and happy for sometime.
DS/PUB/=?=/STEEL

bottom 4 (well bottom all) fight and recruit for the newbies, get them trained and active, and fight among themselves.

higher people in the bottom 4 can be recruited and move up to the majors, or top 4 peoples can be demoted to the minors.

a minor attacks a major, gets resolved diplomatically, and that person gets occ'd for 2 weeks

a major attacks a minor, gets kicked farmed, by his guild, or occ'd by other major for 4 weeks.

all other occ's left with 1 fighter.

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby SmokeytheBear » Mon 13 May, 2013 21:39

Kraton wrote:The thing is guys, pub and riddle have 4,053,392,120 + 2,631,865,850 = 6,667,257,970 fleet, DS have 5,419,558,525.

Piddle have 1,247,699,445 more fleet than DS, they have a lot more econ than DS, nearly double the player numbers and yet they are utterly convinced they are have been defeated for ever. They have a higher total guild prod cap due to their higher numbers and so once DS's double prod stops (for most people it has already) piddle should grow faster than DS, yet they have pretty much universally given up! The problem isnt in the server its in their heads, maybe we did a too good job in the propaganda department...

So splitting up guilds and moving the players around will probably mix it up a bit, but all that will come of it is whoever has the most DS players will have the guild with the most commited and positive members so will once again come to the top, players who have a 1.2billion fleet advantage and think they've lost are never going to be winners no matter how much DS nerf's itself!

My suggestion for improving server activity would be to get some motivating speakers into piddle!

In order to help the littler guys i would suggest some sort of server wide agreement that we wont kill guys with under 2million fleet, this would give them some freedom to play against each other without us big guys joining in, it would also make the server more welcoming for new players. This crash was actually great news for GTF, their activity and fleet numbers are improving without PUB killing them once every couple of months.


The thing you neglect to mention is that a high percentage of your members have massive queues that once they are done will be almost impossible to top. Most of ours though are empty, and the best players are either rebuilding or have left. It doesn't matter if the two guilds have almost equal fleet if you're just going to far exceed that number within a few short months.

NooTgasm wrote:bottom 4 (well bottom all) fight and recruit for the newbies, get them trained and active, and fight among themselves.


You have to get them to play well first. Have you ever tried to teach a noob to play AE correctly? I tried to do this personally with UFP when ralphay made them our sub-guild, never, ever, ever again will I try to teach a nub guild. Some do learn and want to play but the vast majority give you the finger call you a dictator and go back into la-la roleplay land.

this was a favorite from after that debacle
From: [UFP] River Tam Msg - Block Player 2012-01-11 09:43:51
Since Ralphy was so kind as to inflict us with Smokey the Bear, I hope that you might be able to make up for it by posting my available trades on your board - please and thank you very much.


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Last edited by SmokeytheBear on Mon 13 May, 2013 21:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby kirby » Mon 13 May, 2013 21:42

NooTgasm wrote:
a minor attacks a major, gets resolved diplomatically, and that person gets occ'd for 2 weeks

a major attacks a minor, gets kicked farmed, by his guild, or occ'd by other major for 4 weeks.

all other occ's left with 1 fighter.


Seems one side gets harder punishments :paranoid: , anyways I don't care much for gamma will most likely be quitting it again only came back a few weeks ago because a friend asked me to yet then that guy quit see no reason to stay around now.

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby hottie_parms » Mon 13 May, 2013 22:22

Well, yes. We can all agree that there is a problem. However, we may differ on the cause of the problem.

I don't think the inherent issue is that DS "won the server" so much as there's been such a decline in activity, even before the crash, that the server had become stagnant. In dropping the pact between DS and Piddle, DD and I were hoping we could get some more activity out of our own players and out of the server as a whole. And besides that, we were tired of constantly farming STEEL, GTF, and whoever else was around that couldn't really compete with us.

Obviously, we failed. But we made our attempt regardless.

That left a bit of a power vacuum. As is the case after most crashes, tons of people end up quitting. Riddle lost almost all of their top leadership, which triggered an even worse chain reaction. This also caused a bunch of old wounds to re-open and lots of folks who were bitter enemies back in the days of R34/DDoS/Poke started fighting. Suicides happened. It was really, really stupid, and I'm honestly ashamed that it happened under my watch as part of PUB's leadership and I'm not at all satisfied with the outcome. To me, that hurt more than the blob crash.

So I'm just explaining where Piddle is right now. We may have a (temporary) numerical advantage over DS, but on a per-player basis, there's no competing with DS's averages, which will continue to grow. Besides that, I don't think anybody in Piddle leadership will actually want to organize another crash. We were too disappointed by our own activity the last time. Even with motivational speakers, I don't think we're gonna feel confident enough to try a direct hit against DS in the next year or two.

So, the larger question is, how can we fix the server? Inactivity is the problem. There's too much dead weight in PUB, Riddle, and other guilds. We can trim the fat, sure, but the root cause of the inactivity isn't addressed by that. More and more people are quitting. I thought a blob crash would help liven people up, but it took so much cat-wrangling to get the activity that we got to launch at DS and we know how lackluster that was.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's not necessarily a matter of server balance. Piddle vs DS, yeah, if we all had 90% activity, then it would be a good match. Figure out a way to motivate players to stay active, and you'll see a lot more fighting between Piddle and DS on the ticker, leaving smaller guilds like STEEL, WEB, GTF alone.

One thing that we might want to consider, though, is to give a bit more grace and wiggle room to folks who are 64% of your level or lower. Essentially give younger accounts a chance to grow. Pillages suck on them anyway. Problem is, if I see a 2mil fleet in G39, I'm still gonna kill it. I need the derbs to accomplish my goal of killing the rest of Kraton's levi stack. But I am willing to be a bit more lenient on smaller amounts of fleet, and I hope others can be too.

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby Mandril » Mon 13 May, 2013 22:58

nice WoT Hottie, again.. what we can lose to do a interesting server, like 7-8 guilds with 50 players, some 1 month of general NAP to reagroup and things like that

so will be a more equal server,

maybe the winner guild will be some PUB/STEEL mixed guild or some new guild that have ex WAR, N, POKE players, STEEL have some nice account, maybe more active and derbs will make more interesting..

probably the ppl dont like it, but i think is the best for a interesting server, YES i like to go to G57 and take 10 bases of some riddle guy and get 2,9 mill in pillage and 2 mill in derbs, but no riddle try to go and kill my 20 mill fleet... other will be the history of landing there and know that some 50s guild will be roaming in the area

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby Mimiga King » Tue 14 May, 2013 01:15

In all of piddle as it is, only the R34/DDoS blood is active. although a few exceptions remains. I made an announcement about the future plans of Piddle's member on their end. Around 40 to 50% only responded (10% error for people that I already know their plans so they didn't responded) so I can comfortably say that at least half of riddle would be unable to follow announcements.

This is not a surprise counting the amounts of times that Saru had to schedule to get a somewhat decent launch at DS.

It has been said many times by Piddle members that there is no way that we'll ever do another blob crash ever again.

It is indeed true that we have lost almost all leadership in Piddle, caused the this crash alone, we have lost the following --> One and Only, Greg, Saru, Mr. Mysterious, Biohazard, Gnadhis, Wingnut, Oh noes, Vodka Vic, (WPS) PitBull, Dog, Darkest Star, Killer7, Ranchero, The Ed. (probably more that I can't think of right now)

Very few original riddle remains and even then, they're the one who talks the least on boards. It has been months since I've seen any activity by the members who's got the most fleet.

If I was to reactivate the old Riddle's rules. I would consequently have to kick at least 75% of the guild which isn't an option.
Looking at the historical graph between DS and Piddle. Since the crash, DS went from 4B fleet to 5.8B while riddle went from 2.9 to 2.85...

This is a clear view at how this is going to be in a few months time. Piddle and PUB currently have the advantage in total fleet count but DS still and will always be superior in every aspects. DS have many times more huge fleet than us (not including activity) and they are many many times more active than us too. I don't know if you guys are talking over in DS (on the boards) but it's pretty grim over in Piddle, no more than 2-3 messages on all boards a day, that is including the combat board if I exclude bases hits from other guilds.

________________

Sure, we could split guilds apart and create more but on Piddle's end, it would cause many more quits because a few specific person wouldn't accept to be part of the same guild as others. This is the main reason why we haven't merged Piddle and PUB together yet because it has been said many times that if the Ex-Core gets anywhere close to the Ex-DDoS/R34, there would be suicides. Not counting that most people that still plays is because they're with their friends. I don't want to think what would happen if they would be separated and somewhat forced to kill each other. Not everyone is smart enough to accept that his friend killed him and just laugh at it.

As for me, I never asked to be GM, Gandhis knew this a I told him in the meeting we had a month back. I have activity but I'm not a "leader" per say but I know he named me anyway because there was simply no one else for the job... AT ALL!...

As for lower guilds, I CAN announce that they are offlimit but I can't stop anyone to hit em anyway. Not many people still listen to what is being said on announcement ever since Dr.Silent left. He was the pillar of the guild and the guild went downward ever since IMO.


_________________

Nevertheless, I'm open to anything personally, but riddle will not necessarily follow along.

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby NooTgasm » Tue 14 May, 2013 02:25

it would be completely implausible, but imagine if they folded the gamma verse from 6 clusters to 3 or 4

part of the inactivity is so many completely empty sectors, either newbies can't find anything to attack in the galaxy that they started in,
or established players have days of travel to get to any targets

if possible it would be nice to carve out a cluster and have the admins get the newbies to join in only that cluster for a bit, will give them targets, and a no fly zone for people above level 50 regardless of guild

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Re: Some kind of alpha or kappa solution for Gamma?

Postby VORTEX_ » Tue 14 May, 2013 03:01

Okay I am just going to be blunt here and straight to the point. Mixing up and dividing the good players into different guilds to save the server is a bad and crazy idea that will never work. If its not fun for you anymore, then don't force yourselves and others..just quit.

The only reasonable solution to this stagnation that I can possibly think of is to inject new players into the server. Advertise to the other servers and other guilds, say to them "hey guys, establish your guilds here in Gamma and you will have the absolute assurance that none of your players will be attacked (by DS/Pub/Steel/Riddle) for 12 months (or more)".

In the short and medium term we wont see any concrete results (other than the server numbers cropping up) but in the long term this will reap benefits, this will invigorate the server better than any of your crazy ideas.


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