Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

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MonteK
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Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

Postby MonteK » Mon 27 Feb, 2023 17:40

As a neat little nostalgia hit, I thought I'd come back after thirteen years and see if anything's different so I tried Alpha (where I started in late summer 2006). Unfortunate but not entirely unexpected that almost everyone I knew from back then are gone, but more importantly, time has passed of course. At the rate of about a second a second.

The gulf in capability between accounts now, in a game that's allowed sixteen years to pass, is unmanageable to the degree where it's not really worth trying unless you can just slot right back in and have some of your old friends give you one they've got lying around. That said, if you were like me at all, and tried too hard to impress some low-quality people (and spent the rest of the time having a terrible attitude) you'll find you've not earned the goodwill you wanted to. So yeah, starting from zero in Alpha in 2023.

  • The credit bonus for upgrading (50k) is massive on a new server but virtually meaningless on a game where it's pretty standard to have seven-figure fighter stacks. Proposing that the tiers (v1, 2, 3, etc) consider raising this amount up to between 250k and 1million, to give folks a chance to take part and have a meaningful experience.
  • I would suggest that catchup mechanics in this game don't exist, would be a significant amount of effort and would affect such a small number of people, but would still go some way towards not pushing new players out who may be innocent enough to have just found this game over a decade late.

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CrazyLegs
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Re: Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

Postby CrazyLegs » Thu 02 Mar, 2023 00:30

Not to mention the fact that is utter BS, why should you get a leg up on players that actually kept playing for 16 years? When you quit and just came back? It would be massively open to abuse. Anyway it's not that hard to build your account within a couple of years and have enough fighters to be involved in stuff. If you lack the abilty it's probably a skil issue and you would have never kept up anyway.

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Re: Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

Postby MonteK » Mon 06 Mar, 2023 13:53

CrazyLegs wrote:
Thu 02 Mar, 2023 00:30
Not to mention the fact that is utter BS, why should you get a leg up on players that actually kept playing for 16 years? When you quit and just came back? It would be massively open to abuse. Anyway it's not that hard to build your account within a couple of years and have enough fighters to be involved in stuff. If you lack the abilty it's probably a skil issue and you would have never kept up anyway.
The unfortunate thing is, I'm suspecting the tone of your response would've been significantly different if I came back and joined SHLD or V instead. Going to ignore some of the pretty rude comments at the end, because they're just unnecessary. I haven't been conditioned to hate you by the block I've just joined, my friends are here. You're more than old enough to do the exact same thing in return.

Having it open for abuse is a reasonable point but it's the same as absolutely any request that could be flipped on its head. If someone came along today and said, "I wish there was a Shared IP form", you could assume the worst - that it was by someone that was after their own interests and wanted two accounts without needing a VPN. Or, you could take the suggestion at face value and assume the person requesting it was doing the right thing and genuinely had a family member that also wanted to play. You said it yourself - a new player would need 'a couple of years' to be able to contribute here - that's a pretty brutal tutorial (and at best simming) phase for someone that probably just joined to blow other players up. If you had to start fresh, under the strict agreement that you couldn't have an existing account that was lying around, would you bother?

When you last set your account up, versus when I last set one up, there was a significant difference in the landscape across each and you may be missing that context. You had a whole galaxy of other new players to tread over to climb upwards, a new player joining Alpha in 2023 only has their own build queues and maybe one or two inactives with multiple Rings (as well as relationships going back over a decade and a half). Do you believe that sounds particularly enticing to you?

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Re: Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

Postby KenJI » Mon 06 Mar, 2023 14:42

There is a guy in your guild called Evil Wabbit, who has an acc 100 days older than yours and he is doing pretty good. You dont need to catch up to the top 10 players on the servers you just need to build a fleet capable of hitting bases.

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Re: Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

Postby MonteK » Mon 06 Mar, 2023 15:58

He's doing really well, happy for him but I can't really say how much help he was given (if any at all). Debris shares, lucky pillages, inactives, UCs. I haven't been here, it would be wrong of me to comment on that! I can definitely say though, that he's not a new player which I'm thinking adds a little bit of context here.

That said, it's not 100 days older - his account is coming up fast on a year old and he's probably a year or so (maybe a year and a half) away from being in the right place to start becoming a serious nuisance. Absolutely not top 10 in the table, not even top 100, but with enough gravitas to be able to consistently and sustainably hit fleet and bases (so a decent tech/prod base too, so he's not making hits then out of the game for the next month). I'm well aware it's possible to get to his level in such a short time, he's shown it is but should he have been subject to the same rules and restrictions as someone that joined in 2006?

I don't play any other games this old, do Runescape or WoW have mechanics that are a little bit more forgiving on new players who could easily have just innocently come across this game 16 or 17 years late? Or maybe more related, something like EVE or Mankind (if that's still around). Asking a genuine question, because I don't know!

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Re: Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

Postby Brogren » Wed 08 Mar, 2023 19:36

The biggest comeback mechanic there is is that you can get very close in all structures in just 1-2 years since the structure cost gets insane eventually.

Id love to hear a suggestion on a good comeback mechanic that helps you catch up without screwing people that have built with full prod for years. Likely there is none, and newer servers is the place to go if you cant handle playing from behind.

Also runescape/WoW isnt relevant to this discussion as there are actually max levels there. So people that still play after reaching max level does other things. On AE your numbers will forever increase

13th PotMArrows wrote: Remember your place on Alpha Ancient Emperor.
[CLS] Oden wrote: You, you personally, are why this game is dieing.
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Re: Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

Postby CrazyLegs » Thu 09 Mar, 2023 11:45

MonteK wrote:
Mon 06 Mar, 2023 13:53
CrazyLegs wrote:
Thu 02 Mar, 2023 00:30
Not to mention the fact that is utter BS, why should you get a leg up on players that actually kept playing for 16 years? When you quit and just came back? It would be massively open to abuse. Anyway it's not that hard to build your account within a couple of years and have enough fighters to be involved in stuff. If you lack the abilty it's probably a skil issue and you would have never kept up anyway.
The unfortunate thing is, I'm suspecting the tone of your response would've been significantly different if I came back and joined SHLD or V instead. Going to ignore some of the pretty rude comments at the end, because they're just unnecessary. I haven't been conditioned to hate you by the block I've just joined, my friends are here. You're more than old enough to do the exact same thing in return.

Having it open for abuse is a reasonable point but it's the same as absolutely any request that could be flipped on its head. If someone came along today and said, "I wish there was a Shared IP form", you could assume the worst - that it was by someone that was after their own interests and wanted two accounts without needing a VPN. Or, you could take the suggestion at face value and assume the person requesting it was doing the right thing and genuinely had a family member that also wanted to play. You said it yourself - a new player would need 'a couple of years' to be able to contribute here - that's a pretty brutal tutorial (and at best simming) phase for someone that probably just joined to blow other players up. If you had to start fresh, under the strict agreement that you couldn't have an existing account that was lying around, would you bother?

When you last set your account up, versus when I last set one up, there was a significant difference in the landscape across each and you may be missing that context. You had a whole galaxy of other new players to tread over to climb upwards, a new player joining Alpha in 2023 only has their own build queues and maybe one or two inactives with multiple Rings (as well as relationships going back over a decade and a half). Do you believe that sounds particularly enticing to you?
Why are you trying to put words in my mouth to try and make your argument. It would make no difference what "side" in our war a player is this is a terrible idea plan and simple that would never work on an existing ae server, least not alpha. If it was a shld or vandals player my response would have been the same.

Why should you as a new player have a leg up on this server, what if as an existing player you play say 15 years and upgrade every year in order to ensure your account is the best possible you make hits over years to invest in your construction and tech. Then some new rule is applied and players can come in and essentially make 50% (random number) of your construction /research useless, essentially nerfing you.

In these circumstances is wizard going to refund 50% of upgrades historically for existing players? Because he would have just rendered them useless wastes of money and favoured new players over existing.

This is not a thing you can do on alpha or any long term existing server that has lasted such a long time. Perhaps a light version on newer servers of this but still feel it cheapens the experience for everyone else just because you are too lazy to put in the work and not just really old accounts, all the good players that have started in the he last 5 years and put in the work to become competitive too.

Furthermore to say new players cannot have any impact within weeks of playing alpha is just not true. There are still lots of things for new players to do and plenty of targets too.

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Re: Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

Postby WhiteKnight » Thu 09 Mar, 2023 13:36

I thought you mainly played beta back in the day I don’t recall you in alpha much at all back then -.- go play beta , I’m not against increasing the upgrade bonus from 50k to a mill as a one time bonus yet any sort of catch up mechanic is unneeded you can make an account from scratch and in about 2 years time it could be large enough to have an impact in your guild , you wouldn’t be top yet definitely have an impact .

~ Retired ~ "And in the end it's not the years in AE that count. It's the AE in your years."
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Re: Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

Postby Philosopher Cody » Thu 09 Mar, 2023 15:05

There are new players who within a year or 2 already have 21 bases. Look at Starburn in Vandals. He decided to hit all of the CUBE players and other players that decided to stay under level 30. Because those players never could go above level 30 they were sitting on huge amounts of credits so when he attacked he got pillages in the millions. He found a way to get a lot of credits and develop his account.

I never had those opportunities when I started playing the game. Case in point, there are ways for a new account to catch up and become a meaningful force.

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Re: Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

Postby Event Horizon » Fri 31 Mar, 2023 17:13

Here's the thing. Those older servers would no longer exist without the handful of players who've persisted in keeping them in existence. I agree their logic is deeply flawed. I mean unless the last 20 years of playing Alpha was just a hellscape of nothingness that you endured all so you could get to this point 20 years later and finally get to enjoy yourself then yeah, it's not "fair" that new players be able to catch up in a short period of time. Otherwise you already got the benefit of your account as you were playing it and why would you not want to have more fun by inviting in more players to enjoy it? The truth is these older players simply don't want too many new people coming to crash their party. And by party I mean the incredibly dull endless simming up of massive amounts of fleet that almost never get used just so you can say hey I simmed up 1 billion fleet because I never did anything with it. But hey if those are the people that have stuck around to keep the server in existence then I say just let them have it their way. They want there to be this hurdle of enduring months or years of dull simming. That way, unless you've got friends here already there's almost no chance you're going to want to waste your time on such a mind numbingly dull game experience as evidenced by the fact that that is exactly how things have been for a very very long time. The few examples that have been cited are the exceptions that prove the rule rather than proof that the rule doesn't really exist. If they weren't exceptions and say 100 people all joined Alpha at the same time and actually played their accounts the spoils reaped by one or two players by tapping those under 30 accounts would have been divided into much smaller amounts and they wouldn't have been able to catch up. So basically your feeling that the server is closed is only slightly off. It's more like a members only server where the existing members get to act as gate keepers.

So my feeling has always been that there should be servers, probably the majority of servers that have victory conditions and end, the same as a speed server does, just at normal speed and after a much longer time, like maybe a year or two when the the vast majority of people (players and guilds) who were there in the first three months have been essentially defeated and left the server. The server has essentially been won so why not reward the players that won with some free account time on a next server and a badge that let's everyone know they achieved something. But of course that won't happen because there's literally one guy maintaining and developing this game and it's not his regular job so he's doing it on his down time and that's why this game has become more and more stagnant as the years have progressed much to the disappointment of many of us who were there in the early years and got to enjoy it when we were all still figuring out the best way to play the game and there was an actual player base and every server wasn't just a rehash of the last server. This game is dying a long slow death. Some people will keep playing until the last server is shut down, but sooner or later, maybe when Wizard retires or just dies, those servers will be shut down and this game will finally, mercifully, come to an end.

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Philosopher Cody
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Re: Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

Postby Philosopher Cody » Mon 03 Apr, 2023 20:11

So If I or anyone else could just start again and catch up to existing players what this the point of the game then? All of the work, battles, and stuff people have done is now meaningless. Why fight in battles if someone can just catch up in a short period of time? Why make great bases, or research great tech, or do anything in the game when everyone can just catch up.

NASCAR went this route with restrictor plates and making all the cars go basically the same speed. The end result is a dying sport because no one sees the point in watching it anymore. It is not exciting.

The creator of the game I doubt ever envisioned it lasting this long or how players would end up playing it. There are still plenty of things to do for new players. I see new players hitting bases, making bases, building their accounts, etc... The game creators do create new servers all the time. People play those servers. I do not see the issue. If you want a fresh start play one of the newer servers.

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Re: Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

Postby KenJI » Sun 16 Apr, 2023 11:06

Event Horizon wrote:
Fri 31 Mar, 2023 17:13
it's not "fair" that new players be able to catch up in a short period of time
even if they would be able to catch fast they would still have a big problem and that problem is skill
Event Horizon wrote:
Fri 31 Mar, 2023 17:13
The truth is these older players simply don't want too many new people coming to crash their party
We encourage it and a bunch of players from new servers came to Alpha, got smacked around really bad and now they`ve resorted to the stronghold tactics
Event Horizon wrote:
Fri 31 Mar, 2023 17:13
want to waste your time on such a mind numbingly dull game experience
Instead you should wasted your time with new servers that die 2-3 years into the game.
Alpha offers far more action than the new servers, the problem is that very few outside it have the skill to play it.

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Re: Feeding back on a current feeling that Alpha may as well be closed to new players

Postby This Guy » Tue 22 Aug, 2023 04:37

I’m a new player on Alpha and a small tweak I wouldn’t mind would be changing the experience formula to something higher than a maximum exp of ten percent of fleet destroyed. How high is hard to say but I think twenty five percent wouldn’t be out of the ball park.


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