To BoW, and DAWN, and 300, and CHAOS, and all the rest:

[Enki]

to those criticizing BoW keep in mind a couple things...

we recently lost nearly 120m fleet to a very well planned/executed op by Mr. Carmine (who didn't use his fleet but directed the op). part of that was our fault, as was mentioned we could have detected and either made scarce or made a decent stand. but we didn't, and nobody has ever said luck doesn't play a part in this game. anyone who hasn't been zf'd or at least almost been zf'd isn't playing this game, they're just simming.

anyway, since then we STILL have a higher fleet average by nearly 2m than the other 2nd tier guilds. why?

because we, as a guild, run production 24/7. I think purge mentioned earlier about LOVE kicking ppl more often for lack of fleet prod than anything else. we do the same, we recently kicked 4 for that reason. I personally have had prod 24/7 for over a year, without a minute of unproductive time. maybe it's been longer, can't really remember tbh. we also, as a guild, build up our econ/prod as well as we can in semi-hostile territory. frankly, RD (who we deal with more than anyone) does not hit bases, except with fleet on it (and then defenses don't deter, hell they took out my fleet over 21 CC) so I've actually been disbanding defenses in favor of prod structures, when I have the extra creds to spend on it.

also, though we don't blob, we go after RD every chance we get. we do it smart when we have an advantage, those guys aren't glued to their computer 24/7, they make mistakes too. if you don't play though, if you always run, then you're not going to have a chance to exploit their mistakes. if they come with overwhelming force that we cannot reliably counter, then sure we scatter and save our fleets if we can, but when we have even numbers or better we fight. usually RD players aren't willing to zf themselves without significant gain so an even match is often enough to deter them. not always, but sometimes yes. they haven't come in major force in a long time.

finally, we don't whine about balance. no we don't think we can take RD or LOVE down (and we never even cross paths with HIV, too many friends there lol). but we can stake our bit of territory, control it, and have fun.

i think what ppl forget is that you don't have to "win the server" to have a good time and find success in this game. just because BoW does not own the server or even more than our mere 3 1/2 galaxies does not mean that we are not successful. in fact, in this game nobody wins, ppl just control territory and then they choose the way they play. battles are won or lost, but even in losses those who play can soldier on. LOVE/RD cannot disband my bases or delete my account, only I can. so I choose how I play, and have what fun I can.

[MrGarnet]

Heh, I still wonder what the reaction was like in BoW when that dread stack went down; we'd been looking at that thing for a while.

[Enki]

barakkas is a gamer, he accepted the loss with characteristic aplomb. congratulated you guys on the op, and use the opportunity to make some changes he's been wanting to make for awhile now. of course, it was a bummer to lose that much fleet all at once, especially one that so thoroughly guarded an entire galaxy... plus the levi stack parked at his base too (that was Kaos who is back in HIV lol). same with my fleet, a bit smaller (a little under 30m) but frankly more of a nuisance to you guys because I was running around 3 galaxies hitting RD... hehe.

[Mr Brass]

to those criticizing BoW keep in mind a couple things...

+1

Though I'm not sure anyone was actually criticizing BoW, technically. Rather they just don't realize how much you guys own their face.

Nice post, regardless.

[McKinsey]

Had LOVE not backstabbed Chansey, Helion wouldn't be in a mess like this today. We'd have a pretty balanced server on our hands right now.

Chansey believed in long term war servers. Servers that you war on from day one to the last.
Deity and Addex - they prefer zerging, be it with recruitment or pacting, simming up ranks and farming guilds with 10x less fleet and members than them. "Winning the server" is what they gloatfully call it.

Do not be impressed though. There's nothing impressive about stacking teams, pacting each other and farming pubbies.
Impressive is derbing your way to the top against all odds, against strong opposition. And that's what [-O-] and Chansey have done. And what LOVE and RD will never accomplish.

[Addex]

Had LOVE not backstabbed Chansey, Helion wouldn't be in a mess like this today. We'd have a pretty balanced server on our hands right now.

Chansey believed in long term war servers. Servers that you war on from day one to the last.
Deity and Addex - they prefer zerging, be it with recruitment or pacting, simming up ranks and farming guilds with 10x less fleet and members than them. "Winning the server" is what they gloatfully call it.

Do not be impressed though. There's nothing impressive about stacking teams, pacting each other and farming pubbies.
Impressive is derbing your way to the top against all odds, against strong opposition. And that's what [-O-] and Chansey have done. And what LOVE and RD will never accomplish.

I loled. Chansey ran as Cloak lapdog and several other guilds zerguing Gamma while "he hated it but was forced to do it" then once he rose to power he said he had to zerg and did the same thing "he hated but was forced to do". So lol at you random nub.

Anyway chansey came to helion with the idea of being a puppeteer and steer events from high up on his throne, trusting to purge and tama to relay his wisdom to the rest of us when we told him to *beep* off he raged, that is the extent of the backstabbing they didnt follow his orders from another server.

[MrGarnet]

Do not be impressed though. There's nothing impressive about stacking teams, pacting each other and farming pubbies.
Impressive is derbing your way to the top against all odds, against strong opposition. And that's what [-O-] and Chansey have done. And what LOVE and RD will never accomplish.

I always love when Chanseytrolls come over here, it gives me an excuse to look through some faboo pages of other servers.

For example, RD's current averages, with 97 players:

3.452M XP
37.675M fleet
8,239 econ
Level 82.85

RD is 631 days old today. When [(-o-)] was 634 days old (March 1, 2011), their averages (red lines) with... 85? 90? players were:

3.25M XP
27.5M fleet
7k-ish econ
Level 75 or so

And while there's only one major spike in our player count (everybody tagging over for H24), and it lasted perhaps a week, there are quite a few occasions before March 1 where [(-o-)] has gained bunches of players at once (tagging over to help zerg, lasting a few weeks at least) or lost bunches of players at once (tagging over to another guild to help zerg, lasting at least a few weeks). Certainly doesn't look like our preferred tactic has been zerging, unless you believe that adding 7-12 permanent players turns a clearly non-zerg guild into a clearly zerg guild.

On the other hand, it does look like we've outplayed [(-o-)] for quite a while, making more and better hits (more combat XP) and improving accounts faster. Or do we have more XP because all those guilds we pacted kept hitting us? I can never keep that particular thought process straight.

I love Chanseytrolls.

[McKinsey]

Yeah that's how you would like to spin it, lulMaddex. Just to smear a proper GM's name.

Mr. Garnet: Gamma had a lot of wars. Blob stare downs, and of course crashes. Helion not being a war server but rather a farming server explains your guilds growth quite well.

If you sim, do no warring, do no blob stare downs / crashes of course you're gonna be higher level than someone that does.

Did RD have to make constant runs to other clusters to derb blobs of equal or greater size? No. You guys had a "back yard" full of farms and SPORK in the 30s to tend to; Guilds 1/10th your size to beat down.. Biggest accomplishment of RD was a derb delivery by RUIN. Pfffft, yeah.

[MrGarnet]

Did RD have to make constant runs to other clusters to derb blobs of equal or greater size? No. You guys had a "back yard" full of farms and SPORK in the 30s to tend to; Guilds 1/10th your size to beat down.. Biggest accomplishment of RD was a derb delivery by RUIN. Pfffft, yeah.

Uh... what? Before the H24 runup (what you characterize as a "derb delivery" and we keep pointing out was the first time a 1:1 blob crash was won by the attacker in AE history), RD didn't ever have more than 58 people. Seriously, you can see for yourself, not even five dozen people until July 19 2010, seven and a half months into the server. After H24, it was another eight months until we broke 85 members again. I'm pretty confident that the other guilds around back then had more than six or eight people apiece.

And while Poke may have crashed more blobs than RD (I don't pay attention to G, so I have no idea how many you've crashed, nor do I particularly care), seven months into the server (before H24) RD had twice the XP average that Poke did seven months in. We had a greater XP average than Poke a year into each server, and we have a greater XP average now than Poke did 630-some-odd days into G. We've done more fighting than Poke has every step of the way.

So, since it's late and I do have more important work to do, start showing your work, because it's insulting to readers to expect them to slog through a cross-server argument involving a guild that we drove off H months ago. Do you have any credible evidence to back up anything you say, or are you just running your mouth? You say we zerg. Outside of a couple weeks around 24, when? How are those times different from Poke's zergs? You say we sim, but can't explain why we pretty consistently have more XP than Poke did at similar stages of the server. Is it because we don't spend our time simming on a blob, and instead go farming? Does Poke only fight in boring blob crashes, or do small teams of players take a few hundred million fleet to face off against an opposing guild on equal fleet terms? If Poke thinks the other guilds can't match up against us, why is a post showing them how and offers of specific advice a bad thing?

I'm asking you those questions, not because I want to know the answer, but because I really don't want to waste time with you if all you're going to do is try to prove your points by going "Yuh-HUH!" or try to prove me wrong by going "Nuh-UH!" My nine-year-old brother does the same thing, and it doesn't get him very far either. I assume you're at least smarter than a fourth grader, but if it's neck-and-neck, I hear Jeff Foxworthy has a new show coming out soon, you might be able to make some money.

No money here, though. I love Chanseytrolls, the same way I love my nine-year-old brother: it's fun to watch them run headfirst into walls, and I think it happens just to make the grownups laugh. But I won't pay for it, and it does make me worry for their ability to be real people.

*goes back to planning the victory of the RD Reds over the evil Purples*

[Mr Brass]

Lawyered.

[McKinsey]

Mr. Garnet you still don't get it. Most of Pokes experience is from fighting strong opponents. Yours is from fighting nothing but farms. Stat padding against pubbie farms or good ranks after fighting strong opponents? Which do you think is more respectable? YUH-HUH.

Does Poke only fight in boring blob crashes, or do small teams of players take a few hundred million fleet to face off against an opposing guild on equal fleet terms?

So how did WHY! go down again? Any of the guilds from the Triad alone could have derbed them. Yet all three ganked WHY!

Or more recent: RD sends 300m mobile against CHAOS / SWORGS / DAWN's 300m total guild fleet?
Equal fleet terms? lul. You're delusional buddy.

[Enki]

ppl seem to also forget that when that H24 blobcrash happened, RD/DREAD/BoW were all pacted, RD didn't have "farms" in their own backyard, we were block pacted as a cluster. it was only after that, and after RD rebuilt a bit, that they broke pact with us, and eventually swallowed up what members from DREAD/IC who were left (some also went to HIV). sure RD had the 30s and other places to farm but ppl forget that RD and LOVE were fighting fairly regularly, before during and after the blob crash. it wasn't until much later that they pacted.

funny thing, and I don't think anyone's mentioned it, but both RD and LOVE won that crash longterm. i mean, look at the server ranks.

[MrGarnet]

Mr. Garnet you still don't get it. Most of Pokes experience is from fighting strong opponents. Yours is from fighting nothing but farms. Stat padding against pubbie farms or good ranks after fighting strong opponents? Which do you think is more respectable?

Again, citation needed. The server's really only died down (due to low morale in the lower guilds) in the past few months. What of Poke's opponents in the first year or so of G were good opponents? What of RD's opponents in the first year were weak? Why wouldn't RD have been able to take on Poke's opponents in that time? Why would Poke have had an easier time against our opponents in that time? Don't just take the easy way out, if what you say is so obviously true you shouldn't have any problem giving specific examples. So far, not one thing you've stated as the truth has been backed up by anything except you saying it's true. Heck, more importantly, you haven't even said why your original post was relevant to the discussion at hand, namely, what the smaller guilds can do to keep fighting back against us right now; as far as I can see, you've just been talking about RD's rise to power and how a guild on some other server totally did it differently, and I don't really see how that's relevant to the current situation.

So, really, I have to ask: did you read the thread? This one, and not some other thread? Because if you read some other thread dating back from when we kicked Poke or CB or whatever you called yourselves back off the server and intended to post in that, and not a thread about how small guilds can fight against larger ones, we can both just say "oops, my bad" and go about our day. Although the mods might look at you funny for attempted necroing, and the rest of us will definitely look at you funny for failed necroing.

So how did WHY! go down again? Any of the guilds from the Triad alone could have derbed them. Yet all three ganked WHY!

And is still going (with a tag change to 300), and has done a pretty good job of fighting back. They're the kind of guild that can be held up as an example to the others, and I did that in the very first post.

Or more recent: RD sends 300m mobile against CHAOS / SWORGS / DAWN's 300m total guild fleet?
Equal fleet terms? lul. You're delusional buddy.

Careful there, reality's tripping you up again. This is why I asked you for examples and proof, so that in case this happens I can just point out where reality disagrees with you and you can start the slow trek back to it. CHAOS has over 400M fleet, even after our farming op (which involved 240M RD fleet). DAWN is over 600M. SWORG is much lower, but from the ticker tonight I think a few LOVE players just caught one of their blobs, so of course it's low.

[-Benji-]

It's almost as if every new lolPoketrollaccount stoops to a new level of retard.

Complete disregard of reality and factual information and instead resorts to heresay and biased assumptions that have no correlation to actual occurrences.

[McKinsey]

60 days on Kappa, and a level 19 400 econ account to show for it. Shut up Benji, and get given a better account already.

If there's any disregard for reality in this thread it's being disregarded by you WoGgies and LOVE. Lots of people from non-Triad guilds have voiced their opinions on the current state of the server here, which are all very true.

Garnet here is just talking sweet nothings in to the ears of his crops in this lolthread to get them to continue growing.

There's nothing they can do to change the situation for themselves.
Their low morale is due to, guess what, a massive alliance zerging against them giving them no chance. A massive alliance that absolutely refuses to fight each other due to being afraid their player ranks getting lower.

If this was a Chansey server we'd have the 20's perma-occed and a blob crash about to happen in the lowers right now.