I've got a question or 4..

General discussion forum.

Moderator: Support Moderators

jmc92
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon 06 Oct, 2014 02:18
Reputation: 2

I've got a question or 4..

Postby jmc92 » Fri 04 May, 2018 01:37

Why is it that server wars/guild wars end up "ending" anything.?
Lets say 2 guilds go to fight each other. Both have the exact same number of members, with very similar levels.
One defeats the other's fleet, and they have a victory.
But why does that mean merging or giving up for the guild that lost? Never made sense really.

And if a significant amount of users who aren't guilded, were of a decent level and formed together via the message system and won by battling together against the top guild, at that point, what name would the winning team be given?

Also, hypothetically, if there was a server where there was no in-game communication or guild forming allowed, and everyone was basically just computer generated players to each other, what do you think playing that server would be like?

And if Astro Empires was made into an offline pc game, where you join and play against and with intelligent cp accounts, similar to SWBF, would you be interested in playing?

Gone again. A good artist can't play AE and practice his trade at the same time.
User avatar
REDSHEILD
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue 07 Oct, 2008 20:59
Reputation: 4
Guild: E: Technically SWAGA
N: [*ACE*]
Galaxy: Epsilon

Re: I've got a question or 4..

Postby REDSHEILD » Fri 04 May, 2018 01:52

Thing is, when one group defeats another overwhelmingly (i.e. has a significant amount of fleet after the crash) the losing side (whether the groups be guilds, multi guild alliances, or just groups of players, though the last one suffers from lack of JG sharing and other guild benefits) will be completely at the mercy of the winning side.

If they both get a fleet wipe but one side is able to control the resulting derb pile, then they will have a distinct advantage but potentially not enough of one to dominate the server.

In the past when there were more players and many were joining well after server start it was very unlikely that a single winner could emerge as new guilds would crop up, and the server would be just too big for a single guild of two hundred players to dominate. This is why a lot of guilds had multiple sub and training guilds, to serve the purpose of bolstering their numbers and moving new players that did well to places they would succeed in as well as to replace any members of the main guild who left for whatever reason.

With a server so large a multi-guild alliance could hold it down, but that brings in various forms of politics that meant few such alliances were ever stable over a period longer than a year or two.

Now the player count even two months into a server is low enough that a guild with a hundred members or less could feasibly occupy or routinely attack the majority of the server's population. This low player count also makes it much easier for guilds to achieve local superiority over a group of galaxies or an entire cluster, whereas before the constant influx of new players resulted in many guilds being spread out and only able to control galaxies where they were the majority, galaxies that may not even be near each other.

This is a game about math and entropy essentially; conflict only fuels growth for as long as the participants can fight, and with so few in the fighting only the winners get the chance to recover. In the past new players provided three factors: fresh people, fresh accounts, and fresh territory. Servers rarely enter the 30s now, so the third factor has disappeared, and the first two are usually only common in the first month or two of a server. Thus, after the start, a server will trend towards the lowest energy state: a handful of victorious guilds which are so beyond any newcomer that they don't even need to bother, the activity of a few of their players will be enough to keep them in power. And so the server dies.

Every time you make a serious post, god deletes a UC.
Please think of the farmers!
jmc92
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon 06 Oct, 2014 02:18
Reputation: 2

Re: I've got a question or 4..

Postby jmc92 » Fri 04 May, 2018 02:06

Thank you @REDSHEILD that answers the first question..I guess I have noticed that I never see 600+ players online at once on any of the servers anymore when I look at the full list. I think Gamma had opened up past 60 when I finally left it.
Looking at this from the angle that this is a problem because game servers shouldn't really die but continue on in eternal battle, I feel there is a solution to solve it that just hasn't been tried yet

Gone again. A good artist can't play AE and practice his trade at the same time.
User avatar
REDSHEILD
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue 07 Oct, 2008 20:59
Reputation: 4
Guild: E: Technically SWAGA
N: [*ACE*]
Galaxy: Epsilon

Re: I've got a question or 4..

Postby REDSHEILD » Fri 04 May, 2018 02:15

Well, mobile gaming is what killed AE really. A lot of players played casually, but you won't really succeed doing that in AE. Games like candy crush or clash of clans are much more lenient on you deciding when you play. Whereas in AE the dedicated players do things like wake up at 3 AM to launch their fleets and log in from work for blob crashes.

I've thought before that it would be interesting to do a player vs. AI server, but alas, such a project would require very fine balancing for it to actually be fun, and I doubt Cybertopia has the resources to see that through.

Also, as for guildless players. There have been groups of players who do their own thing, even hopping between guilds, but these days they get consolidated fairly quickly because many guilds will farm those who don't join them and aren't strong enough to be allies. When alone such groups of players form their own guild. The reasons why are fairly evident: guildies can use each others' jumpgates, see each other's base and fleet systems, easily coordinate and communicate, and now can partake in the new inbuilt database features.

I'm sure there have been players that have acted as if they are just some loners and then came together to do something, but it's a trick you can only pull once in a server before it gets noticed. Especially with account trackers able to tell you someone's prior names.

Playing this game alone I think is an exercise in frustration. The most fun I've had in this game wasn't really due to a good hit or a large fleet crash, but with who I was doing it. A server where everyone is alone by design would be even less populated than the 1.5 and 2.0 ones.

Every time you make a serious post, god deletes a UC.
Please think of the farmers!
User avatar
SEWI
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu 10 Sep, 2015 01:30
Reputation: 73
Guild: ASAE
Location: AE

Re: I've got a question or 4..

Postby SEWI » Fri 18 May, 2018 00:27

or you could just join ASAE offcoarse....IF we had more space that iz....want we open a third guild for you guyz so you can start playing this game seriously instead of suiciding eachother?

Same name...same guild...all servers... :biglaugh:
User avatar
Tomination
Addicted Member
Addicted Member
Posts: 3790
Joined: Tue 26 Feb, 2008 21:57
Reputation: 95
Guild: WL/STARK
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Contact:

Re: I've got a question or 4..

Postby Tomination » Fri 18 May, 2018 23:49

Unfortunately after solidifying the game on the bedrock of the first three servers (Alpha, BETA, CETI) the game released servers very frequently which has encouraged the wrong behaviours in players.

This means everybody see's a new server as a short term time investment, mistakes can be rectified in the next server, so everybody simply tries to "win" the server as soon as possible at the detriment of the wider player base. Simply put it has become a game of trolling. Losing a crash in a new server means you will be fighting occupation, from which it is unlikely that your guild alone can come back to even terms to fight the other guild.

Because the new servers start and everybody generally starts at the same time, all members tend to be close together. In Alpha back when I played there, there were a few reasons that the current META didn't work.

1: Guilds were spread out across the whole server, not confined within a few galaxies or a cluster. It would be quite a feat to take and hold bases across a whole server where other enemies to you may also exist to shoot you down.

2: Guilds tended to look for ways to extend the life of the server, unwritten rules were generally well obeyed, anybody trying to do something that would kill a guild entirely would be seen as a threat by other guilds, and the offender would often be shot by neutral parties, the attacked would often be defended by neutral guilds.

3: The time investment was much larger, killing the server means throwing away a lot of time you put into the game to grow, because if theres nobody left to fight, theres no point in playing.

The whole problem stems from the fact players can choose where they start, not as the game developers believe (per their updates) down to the size of guilds. Sustainability of the game can be created by nerfing the ZERG nature (as they are trying) but also in nerfing the pre-mades. The game cannot grow without new players. This game is not hospitable to new players.

Welcome to the Tomination: If there is no struggle, there is no progress.

Formerly played Alpha (2008 - 2013) (CLS), Currently playing Lynx (WL/STARK)
User avatar
SICON
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue 06 Jul, 2010 06:16
Reputation: 42
Guild: A:[Anime]
J2:[**»¤¤]
L2:[KING]
Galaxy: Alpha

Re: I've got a question or 4..

Postby SICON » Wed 27 Jun, 2018 02:55

Just noticed this thread here.

Red shield thinks that Mobile gaming has killed this game, but I only play Astro Empires these days from my mobile phone, so I can't agree with that entirely.

Plundering your trades intermittently (my wife hates this game and has made me quit multiple times) since 2009!
Image
Always outnumbered AND outgunned. Never outsmarted.
Sw3arengen
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri 01 Dec, 2017 20:37
Reputation: 0

Re: I've got a question or 4..

Postby Sw3arengen » Sat 14 Jul, 2018 14:16

SICON wrote:Just noticed this thread here.

Red shield thinks that Mobile gaming has killed this game, but I only play Astro Empires these days from my mobile phone, so I can't agree with that entirely.


The large amount of moblie gaming did have a hand in the low traffic or AE
But by far was not the only thing.

Opening of servers every 30 days
Lack of any improvements in the game
Lack of policing of the game
Not to mention not taking advantage ofhe forums

The new things he has put into the game was a step in the right direction
he just was a few years late getting to the party

User avatar
REDSHEILD
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue 07 Oct, 2008 20:59
Reputation: 4
Guild: E: Technically SWAGA
N: [*ACE*]
Galaxy: Epsilon

Re: I've got a question or 4..

Postby REDSHEILD » Sun 15 Jul, 2018 02:12

SICON wrote:Just noticed this thread here.

Red shield thinks that Mobile gaming has killed this game, but I only play Astro Empires these days from my mobile phone, so I can't agree with that entirely.


You play it from your phone, but I would presume you found it on your PC, no?

Mobile gaming was a massive blow to browser games, period, because of their market overlap and that frankly, what people used to seek in browser games are simply done better by mobile games.

Most people I know who are avid players of mobile games are looking for something they can check up on occasionally and jump right into, play for a bit, then leave for later without hassle. Many people I used to play AE with found the same sort of thing in AE.

But the thing is, playing that way in AE leads only to mediocrity at best. AE is a game where the people trying to succeed are doing things like setting alarms at 2 AM for a launch, or checking every hour on the half hour to guard recs while collecting. Watching scanners almost compulsively. Checking enemy bases to see what they're doing, and constantly looking for weaknesses to exploit.

AE is more involved and more complex than most mobile games, and while it can be played from a phone, playing it on mobile is a distinct disadvantage. And unlike multiplayer mobile games such as Clash of Clans, you are not going to be able to get far in AE at all if you don't make time for it. Whereas mobile games are designed to entertain during the time you already have free.

Way back when casual play was more feasible, because most players were casual players, thus drowning out the effect of the dedicated, play-to-win types. With today's compressed player base, I suspect the majority of AE players are serious about the game itself, because frankly they wouldn't be here otherwise. Not when there are even other browser games out there with much larger player bases to fulfill the needs of people who like to game socially, and those require less investment to boot.

While the game's mechanical stagnation hasn't helped (and I would argue some of the changes they have made drove a not insignificant amount of players away) it does not, by itself, explain the massive drop in players, especially since the game had high player counts across multiple servers for years without major gameplay changes. Not to mention there are browser games that remain successful without major change; classic Tribal Wars' latest .net server has 11k players by itself, compared to AE's 19k total. In part I would credit this as well to InnoGames actually properly adapting the game to an app, versus AE's trimmed down mobile site, and I would also attribute this to the fact that Tribal Wars is simply an easier game to play from mobile.

In the modern gaming environment, a game like AE is not competitive, and the changes it needs to be competitive may leave it so different that it isn't even the same game anymore.

Every time you make a serious post, god deletes a UC.
Please think of the farmers!

Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest