Accelerated Start on Older Servers

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Murked
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Re: Accelerated Start on Older Servers

Postby Murked » Thu 04 Oct, 2018 22:16

Whis wrote:The issue is that no matter how big the accelerated start boost is, new accounts will never stack up against the existing accounts on a server. The only conceivable way to make it work is if the new players massively outnumbered the existing players.

But, in theory, anything at this point that helps populate older servers is better than nothing.
Personal quest to catch up the Alpha peeps with a 10 year headstart

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Re: Accelerated Start on Older Servers

Postby The Monarch » Mon 08 Oct, 2018 01:08

So if a level protection change was introduced coincided with an accelerated start, it would offer protection from guilds 10 fold in size to smaller guilds.

Why do people not join older servers? Because they become food in a dark empty vacuum.

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Re: Accelerated Start on Older Servers

Postby VanDike » Wed 14 Nov, 2018 21:23

I am playing on Alpha for 10 years or so, and I don't see a problem with new players becoming competitive in shorter time. If they reach level 100 in a year - let it be. Old servers are already dead, there are not so many hings left that can be broken. And if old players can't compete with new wave, it means they are not active enough and have to move on.

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Re: Accelerated Start on Older Servers

Postby Philosopher Cody » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 22:49

So if I am a new player. Why do I join a new server when I can join an older one with an accelerated start? If this accelerated start gives me things that are limited to a paid account, why not start on an old server where I can get these paid features for free? How is that fair to the free account that has been playing on an old server for 10 years?

It is not the worry about new players catching up, it is the thought of having to work to get your empire. Actually if they enforced the rule that you cannot pass your account on or give it to someone else, the problems of older accounts having such a big advantage would not exist. It is the players that have created that situation and the devs for not enforcing the rules. Alpha has very few original account owners. I am one of them, but many have been turned over to different people. Letting the old accounts go, would mean less older accounts. If there are only 5 or 20 old accounts, then the reason that older people have such a commanding advantage is invalid.

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Re: Accelerated Start on Older Servers

Postby naethel » Sat 08 Dec, 2018 10:21

Devs do not ban accouts that have been given out because servers are dying so they see that it is better to save that account instead of losing one player/customer forever. They already know that almost no one will join a very old server, this suggestion about tech creds being invested instantly is very nice since i think that tech is really one of the deterrents for new players to join (at least on 2.0 servers, for me 1.5 is dead horse cause fleets size are ridiculous), so yeah they should have some technologies unlocked instantly, and that should be viable for every free account else you will NEVER have a chance to captivate anyone to begin with. free accounts should also have 1k credits for every year age to startup the account and free bases up to 9, this way they have a decent setup in about a week and reach instantly the free account cap -> they are more interested to upgrade at that point cause the account looks decent instead of being a lvl 10 *beep*, and if they upgrade they got the free bases as the OP stated, not many, the number dependig on server age, but its importsnt to further quicken the development of the account (and make people see more viable to upgrade on old servers). Everyone is on 9 bases and more after some weeks so its really not that super bonus as it might sound. Heck i made 11 bases in 7 days on typhon. This topic is a really good suggestion cause lets be honest there is no chance someone gonna play seriously, i.e. upgrade a new account on an old server if they start so much behind others and waste time on basic account setup. This issue is known since devs already have put a creds bonus in place for who upgrades but the OP really went further trying to fix the reasons why these accounts are behind so really i’m looking forward to a thing like this, if done properly its just an advantage for old servers as having someone with 17-18 bases in couple weeks is no issue for alpha dragons, as it is no issue if someone suddenly spawns with 12/13 bases in hydra or so to say, n etc, its just an advantage for whole server

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Re: Accelerated Start on Older Servers

Postby Philosopher Cody » Mon 10 Dec, 2018 19:38

naethel wrote:
Sat 08 Dec, 2018 10:21
Devs do not ban accouts that have been given out because servers are dying so they see that it is better to save that account instead of losing one player/customer forever. They already know that almost no one will join a very old server, this suggestion about tech creds being invested instantly is very nice since i think that tech is really one of the deterrents for new players to join (at least on 2.0 servers, for me 1.5 is dead horse cause fleets size are ridiculous), so yeah they should have some technologies unlocked instantly, and that should be viable for every free account else you will NEVER have a chance to captivate anyone to begin with. free accounts should also have 1k credits for every year age to startup the account and free bases up to 9, this way they have a decent setup in about a week and reach instantly the free account cap -> they are more interested to upgrade at that point cause the account looks decent instead of being a lvl 10 *beep*, and if they upgrade they got the free bases as the OP stated, not many, the number dependig on server age, but its importsnt to further quicken the development of the account (and make people see more viable to upgrade on old servers). Everyone is on 9 bases and more after some weeks so its really not that super bonus as it might sound. Heck i made 11 bases in 7 days on typhon. This topic is a really good suggestion cause lets be honest there is no chance someone gonna play seriously, i.e. upgrade a new account on an old server if they start so much behind others and waste time on basic account setup. This issue is known since devs already have put a creds bonus in place for who upgrades but the OP really went further trying to fix the reasons why these accounts are behind so really i’m looking forward to a thing like this, if done properly its just an advantage for old servers as having someone with 17-18 bases in couple weeks is no issue for alpha dragons, as it is no issue if someone suddenly spawns with 12/13 bases in hydra or so to say, n etc, its just an advantage for whole server
How does giving away free stuff cause anyone to pay for an upgrade? So a person starts with more. Does not mean that they will buy an upgrade now does it. It is not going to attract new players. No matter the starting bonus someone will never see it as being enough. In fact it could make the game boring. I just start and within a month I can compete with the top dogs. Why buy an upgrade for more than 1 year? The player only needs a few months and is able to play the game competitively and fight everyone. Why purchase an upgrade at that point?

You arguably make the game less fun. No fun in getting the techs, no fun in getting the bases, etc... because it has already been given to you. How about the people who do not care if they are equal to the top players in the game?

Maybe it is not about what you start with, but what you can do in the game. Maybe if there was more you could do, it would hold people's interests, maybe it is because this game is not on a mobile platform, maybe it is because the game has failed to evolved for the most part in 10 years. Until you can pinpoint the exact reasons why new people are not joining, this suggestion/feature request will not work. Wizard would have to do a lot of market research.

Giving away more free stuff is not going to make more people join. Wizard already put in auto scouting and a database thing, and I do not see new people flocking to the game. The value of an upgraded account is at its all time highest in the game's history.

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Re: Accelerated Start on Older Servers

Postby naethel » Wed 12 Dec, 2018 09:16

Lol it is going to raise the chance of joining an old server from the staggering 0% to 1-2%. It's the same thing alpha GMs do when they preserve an account and give it to a new owner, he can play alpha without being 10 years behind - without having to be friend with the alpha GM. If this is not possible to do for new players joining old servers, then ban all the players using old customers accounts cause it's the same thing, you're just jelly and fear someone being able to do something while having an acct worth 1/10 of yours instead of the usual 1/100. You're the kind of player keeping the servers dead with an answer like this.
"giving away more free stuff is not going to make people join" - again show me a paper describing this phenomenon cause you're literally against the word fidelization which is a commerce practice done by everyone. Also lol for quoting after that 2 upgraded features that don't affect free gameplay at all. Wizard didn't do a single thing to enhance free players, if i have to be sincere he gave even more tools to upgraded people to farm free guys till they quit into oblivion. It's fine for me i upgrade every server i care of but in comparison to you i'm just being objective, a person joining an old server needs a quick start whatever he will do, upgrade or not, else it will be just you and ice pick throwing accounts at each other and assigning them to friends like chimpanzees till wizard close the whole barrack cause he surely can't design nor sustain a game around 100 alpha dogs, precluding himself to a way wider audience, for what? Idk.
Counter my ideas showing why it would make game unbalanced to put someone that has some hundred Ks of tech invested and 1k (one thousand if you didn't understand well) creds on hand, inside a super old server where everyone got at least 10m fleets and tech if its 2.0 or 100m fleets and 20m tech if its 1.5, cause i see no unbalance, its just giving the player a serious chance to play instead of quitting as soon as he realizes there is a ranking list and he is waaaaay on the bottom of that, prolly even behind accts that quit 120 days before and still are on top cause of tech bumping their level up
Philosopher Cody wrote:
Mon 10 Dec, 2018 19:38
Giving away more free stuff is not going to make more people join. Wizard already put in auto scouting and a database thing, and I do not see new people flocking to the game.
this is quote of the month anyways, quoting 2 upgraded features and putting them as free stuff shows how some guys are giving out ideas without even knowing actual rules, GG

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Re: Accelerated Start on Older Servers

Postby Philosopher Cody » Wed 12 Dec, 2018 15:24

The biggest problem that exist in any economic system and/or social system is the idea of inheritance. Want papers. Read up on distributive justice theories by some of the greatest philosophical and economic minds. The idea of being able to pass something on from one person to another creates vast inequalities in any system because the new person did not earn the stuff. You want to get rid of inequalities and give everyone an equal chance. Well passing an account on to someone else gives that new player an unfair advantage and perpetuates the problem of having accounts that have a 10 year advantage over others. If accounts where not passed on, then 90% or so of the top accounts would be gone from this game on the older servers. People do not play forever. The shock of seeing a bunch of old developed accounts way higher than the new guy would not be as present or as much of an issue. But many people just want to buy their way to the top or skip the process and gain an already developed account.

It is well documented and well argued in academic research that inheritance or in this case passing an account onto another is a major problem when it comes to social justice and the problem of inequalities.

Next, Wizard does not make money off free accounts. His push to make upgrade accounts have more value is a pure business move to try and get players to upgrade their account. They upgrade, he collects the money. You get what you pay for. If you want to be free, you get the free features. If you want to do more and have more than you pay for it.

Giving away free stuff never lasts or is viable as a long term strategy for any business. I have seen other games do that, and they all have gone under. Or they drive people away because every month the new free stuff makes all the old stuff worthless. Players get bored when they are just turning their wheels and getting no where. Giving an ever bigger increase of free stuff to new players accomplishes exactly that. The month it took to research that tech. Does not matter because it is now given away for free.

Your comment about jealousy is irreverent in this argument. For a guy claiming to be arguing from an objective view point, attacking the person is a major sign of weakness in your argument. Your best argument is an attack on what you perceive my thoughts to be is just laughable and meaningless. Stick to the topic.

Likewise I can ask you to prove or show a paper that demonstrates that giving a starting boost is going to bring in more players. I am not the one arguing for this feature request to be implemented. Hence the burden of proof rests on the person wanting it. It has not been show how giving away a significant starting boost is going to bring in new players, get those players to purchase upgrades, retain those players, and not harm the game.

Like the Devs have stated in the past, everyone would love a feature request that gives them 100 bases and 10 billion credits. But that is not good for the game. It is not good for business. Wizard is in this to make money. Having 100 more free accounts in the game, does not generate him revenue/profits. Upgraded accounts generate the revenue/profits.

You cannot make a game that everyone wants to play or everyone will want to enjoy. Wizard has picked a market that he appeals to. Now it might be a very small market of individuals and maybe he is content with that. Would getting a bigger market make him more money, most likely. But at that point he has to judge if working on this game is worth the opportunity cost or if he can better use his time for other things that give more enjoyment such as just watching TV at home, spending time with his family, or investing his resources into a different venue.

No one makes you play this game. It is admirable that people want to try and make it better. But in the end it is Wizard's call. He has to live with the consequences of what happens. You, I, any other player can just walk away at any time. Wizard has to deal with all the mess that happens. If can make your suggestions, and if you do not like the outcome you can always quit. No player in this game really matters. In time all players fade away and it is all meaningless. So make the best of your time and get as much enjoyment as you can.

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Re: Accelerated Start on Older Servers

Postby naethel » Thu 13 Dec, 2018 12:16

Look i think i’m just being more realistic, since i don’t see wizard taking any move against people throwing accts at each other i just act as if that thing was impossible to force without making whole servers delete, but what i don’t get is that i talked about some precise changes and you come and make examples with 100 bases and millions credits, or stating the obvious “wizard doesn’t make money off free accts”. If that’s so hard for you to understand then i guide you through the next obvious step: there is no upgraded account if there is no account! Read the OP thoroughly and maybe even my suggestions cause i say nothing near giving 100 bases or million credits, i don’t even touch any upgraded feature (you quoted them yourself so you’re the one who gotta stick to the topic lol) my idea is just to get rid of the first 2 days of NOTHING a player has to play especially when are way bigger sharks already lurking around, in a new server that’s perfectly fair but if thats fun or fair for you in an old one then idk what to say, and i repeat its de facto impossible to get rid of people leaving an account to another player, at least with this scarce population it would mean closing some servers or leaving them with 10 accts which means the same, if thats good for you amen but i don’t see any real solution in your words, i don’t even know what you’re defending since you gave no other option to this evident problem the game is facing. Also lol for the last period i had to take my antidepressant after reading it

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Re: Accelerated Start on Older Servers

Postby Whis » Thu 13 Dec, 2018 21:26

Wizards does indeed make money off free accounts. If you are not upgraded you will see ads, which makes AstroEmpires money. Granted it is not nearly the same as having accounts upgraded.

Just wanted to clarify that point, so keep the thread on track to find ideas that would help both new free and new upgraded players populate old servers.


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